It’s kinda disturbing seeing how many noobs kill aquatic life with their nano tanks….

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workhz

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I love how people justify killing fish with “trial and error” why doesn’t that apply to newborns? This website shows that fish are still not seen as pets like dogs and cats are.

Did you really equate fish with newborns? Last I checked, I wasn’t having sashimi human newborns :)
 

Opus

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Well yes but you’re missing my point. Noobs think it’s easier to start with a nano. It’s not. Thus why they are a primary reason why these aquatic life forms constantly die due to their inexperience
Same reason so many goldfish have died over the last 60 years.
 
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LegalReefer

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Well yes but you’re missing my point. Noobs think it’s easier to start with a nano. It’s not. Thus why they are a primary reason why these aquatic life forms constantly die due to their inexperience
A nano can be easier if done properly, but it is also much more finicky and in need of a careful eye and focus. It is easier in the sense that you only have 8 to 160 pounds of water to deal with, which can be important and a blessing if you’re in a tight space, like a hundred fifty square foot apartment. It is also easier to fix mistakes, tho mistakes if not caught quickly are far more devastating.

For a five gallon tank, you can water-change away most problems with ease, in just ten minutes. That’s easy. Aiptasia issue? It’s probably on one of your four rocks, just pull the rock and fix it. Algae problems? One extra snail might be just enough to do the trick. And so on, you get the point.

Big tanks carry their own problems, and while they do become self-regulating more easily and more quickly, a big swing in a big tank is a big deal. A 20% water change for a 150 gallon tank weighs 240 pounds. The tank itself weighs likely almost a ton, with rock included. Sure, it may be stunning and have more long-term oomph, but it’s higher entry cost and space constrained.

I hate the death rates of critters in this hobby too, but let’s not pretend it’s just nano noobs killing ocean life. Big or small, almost all tanks eventually crash. Theres a reason Paul B, love him or hate him, is a legend. 30 years for a tank is insane. In the grand scheme of things, this hobby has far less of an oceanic impact than shrimp fishing, or dredging harbors and beaches, or dragnets, or any other myriad number of things. Doesn’t mean the bad ought to be ignored, but it should be weighed with consideration, especially when balanced with the good economic benefit it brings to impoverished areas and the ecological growth of knowledge and positive industry (mariculture is amazing!!!)!
 

workhz

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Ok. Seriously. I started with a 29 or so gallon eclipse 20+ years ago. I sure as hell didn’t know any better and lived in a rented apartment. What was I going to have, a 200 gallon 6’ tank? Didn’t have the money, knowledge or space. I got better at it over time then quit for a decade. I agree, bigger tanks with sumps are much easier.

Anyway, new folks are on average going to have smaller tanks, less knowledge, less space and less money. You gotta start somewhere and yes it’s unfortunate that coral and fish get killed in the process. Guess what, lack of knowledge and money doesn’t keep the world from reproducing either I’d posit that humans are more important than fish but that doesn’t stop people from procreating and raising crappy humans.
 

Spieg

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Why do noobs feel the need to buy nano tanks?
Ignorance and budget constraints.

Hate to admit it but my first tank back in the 80's was a 10 gallon (this was before anyone called them "Nano tanks"). And yep, I killed everything I tried to keep in that tank. I was young and poor at the time and didn't want to spend a fortune to find out if I could keep salt water fish, so I went with what I thought was the less expensive option. I didn't understand how much more difficult a small tank would be to keep stable. Eventually I read some books and educated myself on how the chemistry works (as much as was understood at the time anyway), and realized I needed to go bigger or give up on the hobby. Things are a little easier today, but still it's not an easy thing to do. The large number retail offerings for low priced nano tanks also presents a strong temptation for people entering the hobby.
 

KevinC

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There are lowkey no correlation between tank size and parameter swings. “Noobs” just have to keep salinity in check and do big water change and that literally solves 90% of the problem. (Given that they know to stay away from SPS)

Yes you can keep a hippo tang happily in a 5 gallon tank. Is it suggested to tho? No. But you can keep it for however long until you want to move it to a bigger tank. Just like how you would not want to see someone coop up in 40sq ft room (bathroom size)

but I do agree that some nano tanks are set to failure.
 
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Biokabe

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Noobs are noobs. There's nothing magical about a bigger tank that prevents them from stocking inappropriate livestock, overstocking the tank, or moving too fast. The difference is, with a bigger tank there's more livestock around, more moving parts, and a lot more money involved. With a smaller tank, less livestock is subjected to noob mistakes, and the new aquarist is less likely to cut corners in order to put together a tank that can properly support a small marine environment.

If you don't want noobs to learn on nano tanks... how, exactly, do you want them to learn? Do you want a fish-keeping license, with courses and certifications that restrict who can own what tank? Regular inspections to ensure that no one "unqualified" can own a nano tank? You don't need such restrictions to own a cat, a dog, a bird, a snake, a toad, a tortoise, or a baby human... and yet you expect to impose such restrictions on fish keeping?

Noobs are going to do what they think is right. Lacking information - including the fundamental fact that they don't have information - they will make poor choices. If they are good fish keepers, they will learn from their mistakes and learn to do better. If they aren't, then they'll either keep throwing money away or get out of the hobby. And the same will be true whether they start with a 13.4 gallon Fluval tank or a 55 gallon Aqueon or a Red Sea Reefer 900XL.

And frankly, I find the sanctimonious tone in this thread offensive. We're in this as a hobby. None of us, frankly, need to keep aquatic livestock. Yes, there are other facets involved, but keeping an aquarium is fundamentally about keeping it to observe - or, derisively, keeping it for eye candy. You claim to be all about 'protecting the aquatic life', yet all you seem to want to do is dunk on noobs and insult nano tank owners. If all you care about is protecting aquatic life, you probably ought to give up reefkeeping and volunteer or donate towards organizations that help coral reefs. I guarantee that your dollars will do more to protect wildlife if you give it The Coral Reef Alliance than whatever you spend on your tanks.
 
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RedSeaReefer1

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Noobs are noobs. There's nothing magical about a bigger tank that prevents them from stocking inappropriate livestock, overstocking the tank, or moving too fast. The difference is, with a bigger tank there's more livestock around, more moving parts, and a lot more money involved. With a smaller tank, less livestock is subjected to noob mistakes, and the new aquarist is less likely to cut corners in order to put together a tank that can properly support a small marine environment.

If you don't want noobs to learn on nano tanks... how, exactly, do you want them to learn? Do you want a fish-keeping license, with courses and certifications that restrict who can own what tank? Regular inspections to ensure that no one "unqualified" can own a nano tank? You don't need such restrictions to own a cat, a dog, a bird, a snake, a toad, a tortoise, or a baby human... and yet you expect to impose such restrictions on fish keeping?

Noobs are going to do what they think is right. Lacking information - including the fundamental fact that they don't have information - they will make poor choices. If they are good fish keepers, they will learn from their mistakes and learn to do better. If they aren't, then they'll either keep throwing money away or get out of the hobby. And the same will be true whether they start with a 13.4 gallon Fluval tank or a 55 gallon Aqueon or a Red Sea Reefer 900XL.

And frankly, I find the sanctimonious tone in this thread offensive. We're in this as a hobby. None of us, frankly, need to keep aquatic livestock. Yes, there are other facets involved, but keeping an aquarium is fundamentally about keeping it to observe - or, derisively, keeping it for eye candy. You claim to be all about 'protecting the aquatic life', yet all you seem to want to do is dunk on noobs and insult nano tank owners. If all you care about is protecting aquatic life, you probably ought to give up reefkeeping and volunteer or donate towards organizations that help coral reefs. I guarantee that your dollars will do more to protect wildlife if you give it The Coral Reef Alliance than whatever you spend on your
Noobs are noobs. There's nothing magical about a bigger tank that prevents them from stocking inappropriate livestock, overstocking the tank, or moving too fast. The difference is, with a bigger tank there's more livestock around, more moving parts, and a lot more money involved. With a smaller tank, less livestock is subjected to noob mistakes, and the new aquarist is less likely to cut corners in order to put together a tank that can properly support a small marine environment.

If you don't want noobs to learn on nano tanks... how, exactly, do you want them to learn? Do you want a fish-keeping license, with courses and certifications that restrict who can own what tank? Regular inspections to ensure that no one "unqualified" can own a nano tank? You don't need such restrictions to own a cat, a dog, a bird, a snake, a toad, a tortoise, or a baby human... and yet you expect to impose such restrictions on fish keeping?

Noobs are going to do what they think is right. Lacking information - including the fundamental fact that they don't have information - they will make poor choices. If they are good fish keepers, they will learn from their mistakes and learn to do better. If they aren't, then they'll either keep throwing money away or get out of the hobby. And the same will be true whether they start with a 13.4 gallon Fluval tank or a 55 gallon Aqueon or a Red Sea Reefer 900XL.

And frankly, I find the sanctimonious tone in this thread offensive. We're in this as a hobby. None of us, frankly, need to keep aquatic livestock. Yes, there are other facets involved, but keeping an aquarium is fundamentally about keeping it to observe - or, derisively, keeping it for eye candy. You claim to be all about 'protecting the aquatic life', yet all you seem to want to do is dunk on noobs and insult nano tank owners. If all you care about is protecting aquatic life, you probably ought to give up reefkeeping and volunteer or donate towards organizations that help coral reefs. I guarantee that your dollars will do more to protect wildlife if you give it The Coral Reef Alliance than whatever you spend on your tanks.
Wow. That offended huh? No need to write a whole book.
 

bert236

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Rubbish.

I find a small tank easier to maintain than a big tank. It fits in my apartment when a big tank wouldn’t.

Where is this massive amount of research you refer to, or did you just make that up?
Not trying to stir the pot but if you look at any reputable reefer they will tell you nanos are harder for beginners. Even a multitude of posts on this very forum. I am just about to start my first tank and during my research online and irl almost everyone said to stay away from sub 30g tanks because it is much harder to keep things stable and isn’t as forgiving of beginner mistakes. As someone who has no actual practice in the hobby just research done I feel a small tanks water parameters would get out of hand way faster with no hands on knowledge. some mistakes would harm or crash your tank where as they wouldn’t have as much effect in a tank twice or more the water volume (such as dosing or stuff like that). It also would limit what utility fish you can keep and amount of CUC. Everything there seems like it would make it harder for a beginner but like I said I have no hands on experience so maybe I’m wrong.
 

Jekyl

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You have to take into account that new people fail just as often with larger tanks. However more people own smaller ones. I bet the failure ratio is about the same.
 
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RedSeaReefer1

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Not trying to stir the pot but if you look at any reputable reefer they will tell you nanos are harder for beginners. Even a multitude of posts on this very forum. I am just about to start my first tank and during my research online and irl almost everyone said to stay away from sub 30g tanks because it is much harder to keep things stable and isn’t as forgiving of beginner mistakes. As someone who has no actual practice in the hobby just research done I feel a small tanks water parameters would get out of hand way faster with no hands on knowledge. some mistakes would harm or crash your tank where as they wouldn’t have as much effect in a tank twice or more the water volume (such as dosing or stuff like that). It also would limit what utility fish you can keep and amount of CUC. Everything there seems like it would make it harder for a beginner but like I said I have no hands on experience so maybe I’m wrong.
No you’re exactly right & that’s the point I’m trying to make here. People think I’m trying to [be unkind to] nano owners
 
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Maddlesrain

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I agree and disagree. I think new hobbyists get nano tanks for the wrong reasons sometimes (they aren't familiar with aggression between inhabitants or think it'll be easier to buy gradually larger tanks as they go), but I don't find nanos harder to maintain personally. I think they can be easier once a person has a better understanding of maintenance and testing requirements and are much more accessible for many people.
And to elaborate: buying progressively larger tanks is perfectly fine, it's just not as cost effective and sets a person back from progressing in regards to tank maturity.

But everyone starts somewhere. It's best to encourage newbies to do their research, and offer advice in a constructive way when you can. Most people in this hobby are willing, and ready, to learn.
 
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