It's all @Paul B's fault... my journey to an immune reef (hopefully!)

[Paul B]

There is info all over the place on how to use Ozone but like everything else in this hobby all information is subjective as we all have different tanks with different loads and we like different music.
Many people run it in a skimmer then run the effluent over carbon to eliminate residual ozone. I don't like carbon so I have a 5' trough over my tank filled with various corals, algae etc that the effluent runs over which would eliminate any ozone. That way I can run it at full strength. Everyone will argue as to what it does or does not do for your water quality so you will not get any exact answers. I have run it for about 40 years and so far I have no problems with anything but that could just be because of my good looks and have nothing to do with ozone.
But what it does is oxidize any organic molecule it contacts and we have plenty of organics in a reef. So in that respect it "may" slow down the accumulation of nitrates because bacteria feed on organics and the ozone will eliminate some of it. That is why bacteria hate ozone.

 

[MnFish1]

People think I go against the grain. I don't. Everybody else does. When I started my tank it was me and some bowlegged guy in Tibet who had a pet Yak with a salt water tank so there was no grain. Eventually someone, probably Bryant Gumbal invented the internet and everyone had their own grain. Now my grain (not Migrain) is on the back burner with a few other Geezers and many people think we are senile. We probably are.

Usually the reason people move from one style of technology over another is that the 'newer' version seems to work the better for the most people. Otherwise there would be no reason to change. Over the years things 'evolve'. Thats not to say that every 'newest thing' works out - but over time the best methods seem to survive and become standard. You may not be going against the grain considering information known 40 years ago - but you are definitely going against the grain now....

I have learned a lot discussing this - so thanks btw.

 

[MaiReef]

I love this comparison, but I have only been reef keeping for 4 years, but have had fish for 30+ and I have never quarantined. No one ever likes to hear that, but I just don't. I treated ICH twice with medication in freshwater in that time and have not had an instance in my current tank(that I know of). I do things like mix the sand all the time, do not use carbon, and I now don't use any filter socks or floss. I change 25% of my water about every 2-3 weeks and I only lost fish due to testing incompatibilities. I am still working on coral, but despite some ups and downs have a bit of variety of soft, lps, and sps. I use flake, pellets, live pods, and a whole bunch on different frozen that I put on a rotation. I get random blooms of critters( bristle worms, mini brittle stars, asterina, aiptasia, and chitons). I like having my tank as a long term experiment. I want everything to live and die of old age, but that doesn't always happen.

 

[Paul B]

MnFish, it was fun wasn't it!

40 years ago we cured ich with copper pennies. That would still work but pennies are now made out of old 8 track tape players

 

[Tristren]

I don't like carbon so I have a 5' trough over my tank filled with various corals, algae etc that the effluent runs over which would eliminate any ozone.

Ok, pardon?
That seems like an interesting part of your setup that I haven't heard before...
You have a 5' trough that you run the effluent from your skimmer over?

 

[Paul B]

Exactly. I used to use it to grow algae which is why there used to be this light over it. Now I built an algae scrubber so I don't use the light.



Here it had different lights over it.



This thing goes back years.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Festive update... nothing exciting has happened at all. The Mata tang has cleared up totally, nothing else showed any symptoms of any kind... I can confirm however, that tangs do not like Brussel sprouts.

 

[Paul B]

What did you expect to happen?

 

[Gweeds1980]

What did you expect to happen?

I expected some sort of festive party at least... maybe a Christmas tree with tiny tinsel or some garish lights... perhaps even just a late night and a few too many sherrys... but there was nothing, no revelry at all! I blame the lack of opposable thumbs.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Just to kick up this thread again...
Some further reading for anyone wanting to know more about the link between diet and immunity in fish...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.../article/pii/S0145305X17301118

 

[MnFish1]

Just to kick up this thread again...
Some further reading for anyone wanting to know more about the link between diet and immunity in fish...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.../article/pii/S0145305X17301118

Tbe link doesn't work

 

[Gweeds1980]

Tbe link doesn't work

Weird... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0145305X17301118

I'll try again... deffo works as just looking at it now!

 

[Brew12]

Weird... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0145305X17301118

I'll try again... deffo works as just looking at it now!

First link still doesn't work, but this one does!

 

[Gweeds1980]

First link still doesn't work, but this one does!

That's so odd... they are identical as far as I can see!!

 

[Paul B]

OMG, I thought I wrote that. I have been saying those exact things for decades but now, all of a sudden some guys with as many degrees as thermometers write it and people believe it.
It
s perfect. They even go into fish oils. I am thrilled.

 

[aquanicssd]

OMG, I thought I wrote that. I have been saying those exact things for decades but now, all of a sudden some guys with as many degrees as thermometers write it and people believe it.
It
s perfect. They even go into fish oils. I am thrilled.

Some words for comfort, I took you at your word THEN started finding these articles... Now I'm asking questions like "why is everyone still so opposed to this? There's actual proof now and we're still on the fence."

 

[aquanicssd]

When is the last time you added a new fish to your tank? Part of the reason people dont have aquariums / fish for 20-30 years is that they move, they have a power failure, etc etc - and they dont keep a tank that long. It does not mean that people using techniques other than yours cant have a tank for 20-30 years.

Not trying to bring out old issues, but as I wandered this post I saw this and had to inject my thoughts.


The problem with an argument like this, is the current studies that have already proven that the additions certain and specific bacteria promote the growth of newborn fish - as well as the data we have on how bacteria in our own guts (the same bacteria dosed in the tanks) helps us digest food.

There is plenty of data that suggests quite confidently that there is a lot of bacteria in the ocean that we don't have in our tanks.

The big dogs (like massive aquarium exhibits) are now dosing their waters with these bacteria because they've seen the evidence. More long-term observations should be soon to follow...


https://goo.gl/4qBJ9s
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...ncrease-growth-and-health-of-larval-clownfish

Further research indicates that these types of bacteria EAT the harmful bacterias like Vibrio.

Finally, fish immune systems are adaptive to previously exposed pathogens.

http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0000520.html

 

[MnFish1]

First link still doesn't work, but this one does!

This is the first link:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.../article/pii/S0145305X17301118

This is the second link:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014530517301118

The first one has '...' in place of 'science'.

 

[Gweeds1980]

This is the first link:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.../article/pii/S0145305X17301118

This is the second link:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014530517301118

The first one has '...' in place of 'science'.

Lol... as an aside I like the fact that like this link, add a little science and then it works

 

[Paul B]

Now I'm asking questions like "why is everyone still so opposed to this? There's actual proof now and we're still on the fence."

Like Duh!!. It is common sense but there is this big box and almost everyone on all the forums are in that box so it is hard to climb out. As you said, scientific facts are now coming out all over the place but many people either won't read, it, can't understand it or just don't believe it..

Part of the reason people dont have aquariums / fish for 20-30 years is that they move, they have a power failure, etc etc - and they dont keep a tank that long. It does not mean that people using techniques other than yours cant have a tank for 20-30 years. Lets put it this way

I get people saying things like this all the time like I don't have power failures or move. I moved my tank once and I will be moving it again in a few weeks. But in the 46 years this hobby has been in existance, there are a small handful of tanks older than 25 years. But there are more than ten million reefers. Doesn't sound right does it. Many of those people IMO had simple problems but continued using inside the box methods like we used 40 years ago. They didn't work then and they don't work today.

I am not rich, I have no degrees, I spend very little time on my tank, I have no test kits and hardly change water. I also worked like everyone else and had kids for the first 40 years my tank was up.
I just learned a very simple fact. You need the correct food and dry foods are not it. Fish need live bacteria every day and many commercial foods also won't do it so they have to be subsidized with more fresh food that has bacteria in it. Also, you can not keep fish away from parasites and then when they die from parasites you wonder why.
Just peruse the disease forums on every forum. Look at all the dying fish, even the quarantined ones. Search how many fish die in quarantine. It's probably more that die there than in a tank. Don't take my word, just look for yourself.