Japanese Swallowtail or Pyramid Butterfly in 112 gallon tank?

[Ryans Reef]

Hey hey, the thread title says it all. Would either of these fish do well in a 112g tank? The dimensions are 36x36x20.

 

[nereefpat]

I think that's a tough one. If you arrange your rockwork, either a center island or 2 smaller islands instead of a pile of rocks in the back, with plenty of swimming room, it's likely okay. I wouldn't get mad at you . Expect a 5"+ fish either way, but not as active or aggressive as tangs.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

no doubt pyramid. Pyramid is one of those fish that looks much better in person, especially in a reef.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Watanabei. I’d say pair just to keep the male from transitioning. Had a pair of swallows. Female didn’t make the trip. Male did fine and was stunning but by the time I found another healthy female he started to transition. And then came the velvet outbreak which devastated the stock.

 

[1112-425XL]

I've had a female swallowtail for just over a year in my 47x22x22. She is very active, but has plenty of swimming room. Usually when my peaceful reef community is disturbed, she is involved.

 

[i cant think]

Hey hey, the thread title says it all. Would either of these fish do well in a 112g tank? The dimensions are 36x36x20.

Without a doubt, if you can get hold of one, Japanese swallowtails are incredibly personable and pose almost no threat to corals whilst IME, all butterflies are a risk towards coral.

 

[areefer01]

Hey hey, the thread title says it all. Would either of these fish do well in a 112g tank? The dimensions are 36x36x20.

Let me preference this by saying my post is not what is right or wrong as it relates to the size of the fish and display. I make a note of it in my experience but it is only for context.

How much rock work do you have?
How mature are the corals?
How much substrate, if any?
How many medium to large fish?
Do you know their sleeping/resting areas at night?

Only asking these questions because the size you of the display you noted above is empty. Now add in all the things above and there is less space. Could be more space for foraging but may not be enough space for the fish and how they navigate the oceanic waters in real life. Not that you or I can achieve that in our homes on our budgets but adding it for context.

Both are pretty fish. Both will get into the range of 7 to 8 inches. Maybe a smidge more in captivity due to our feeding habits. I own both a Zosters and Pyramid but do not own the Swallowtail. My Pyramid uses my complete display but is not that fast. By fast I mean I have anthias which are fast when they move at times compared to the butterfly who is sort of on Hawaiian time - it will get there when it gets there if that makes any sense.

My display is 54 x 30 x 30 roughly 210 gallons. The Pyramid body shape masks it size but even then I believe it is too big for my display. I don't feel I have enough left, right, or length of the display for them to use. I do have internal width and depth due to the 30 x 30. It is working out ok but I feel it could be better if that makes sense.

So for me I'd recommend factoring in the rock, fish, projected size, coral, coral type, potential size today and tomorrow, and go from there. Only because as the reef matures (we should be planning for 15 to 20 years) swim space is lost and Pyramids - I'd say it is an outer reef fish but will defer to experts.

TL: DR - both are beautiful fish. I have only experience with the Pyramid, not Swallowtail. My Pyramid does eat Xenia, can't keep it in my display. Healthy. Vibrant. Almost foolproof provided you obtain a healthy animal. No aggression towards other fish. Shy at first but very friendly now.

Not sure I helped but there you have it. All the best.

 

[Ryans Reef]

Really appreciate all the replies!

I think my biggest hindrance has been that most sites have the minimum tank size at 125 gal, which is 6'x2'x18". So a lot more swimming space (at least length wise) whereas I've only got 3'. But it sounds like either could work perhaps?

These are some older photos of when the tank was first set up back in June, but gives you guys an idea of what the rockscape is like.

And here's a video walkaround:

 

[Ryans Reef]

I think that's a tough one. If you arrange your rockwork, either a center island or 2 smaller islands instead of a pile of rocks in the back, with plenty of swimming room, it's likely okay. I wouldn't get mad at you . Expect a 5"+ fish either way, but not as active or aggressive as tangs.

Great. Yeah I love tangs, but they can get quite the attitude haha

 

[Ryans Reef]

no doubt pyramid. Pyramid is one of those fish that looks much better in person, especially in a reef.

For sure! I love the way they look. Great color, color separation and shape. How do you like they're personality? I've found they can be a bit skittish, but maybe that's just initially.

 

[Ryans Reef]

Watanabei. I’d say pair just to keep the male from transitioning. Had a pair of swallows. Female didn’t make the trip. Male did fine and was stunning but by the time I found another healthy female he started to transition. And then came the velvet outbreak which devastated the stock.

Awesome. I'll take a look at those.

Sorry to hear about the velvet outbreak, that's one nasty parasite.

 

[Ryans Reef]

I've had a female swallowtail for just over a year in my 47x22x22. She is very active, but has plenty of swimming room. Usually when my peaceful reef community is disturbed, she is involved.

Great to hear, and beautiful fish! How've you found her to be personality wise?

Without a doubt, if you can get hold of one, Japanese swallowtails are incredibly personable and pose almost no threat to corals whilst IME, all butterflies are a risk towards coral.

Got it. Yeah normally I skip right over butterflies, but had read that Pyramids were the one exception. Not sure though as any fish can go rogue I'm sure.

 

[Ryans Reef]

Let me preference this by saying my post is not what is right or wrong as it relates to the size of the fish and display. I make a note of it in my experience but it is only for context.

How much rock work do you have?
How mature are the corals?
How much substrate, if any?
How many medium to large fish?
Do you know their sleeping/resting areas at night?

Only asking these questions because the size you of the display you noted above is empty. Now add in all the things above and there is less space. Could be more space for foraging but may not be enough space for the fish and how they navigate the oceanic waters in real life. Not that you or I can achieve that in our homes on our budgets but adding it for context.

Both are pretty fish. Both will get into the range of 7 to 8 inches. Maybe a smidge more in captivity due to our feeding habits. I own both a Zosters and Pyramid but do not own the Swallowtail. My Pyramid uses my complete display but is not that fast. By fast I mean I have anthias which are fast when they move at times compared to the butterfly who is sort of on Hawaiian time - it will get there when it gets there if that makes any sense.

My display is 54 x 30 x 30 roughly 210 gallons. The Pyramid body shape masks it size but even then I believe it is too big for my display. I don't feel I have enough left, right, or length of the display for them to use. I do have internal width and depth due to the 30 x 30. It is working out ok but I feel it could be better if that makes sense.

So for me I'd recommend factoring in the rock, fish, projected size, coral, coral type, potential size today and tomorrow, and go from there. Only because as the reef matures (we should be planning for 15 to 20 years) swim space is lost and Pyramids - I'd say it is an outer reef fish but will defer to experts.

TL: DR - both are beautiful fish. I have only experience with the Pyramid, not Swallowtail. My Pyramid does eat Xenia, can't keep it in my display. Healthy. Vibrant. Almost foolproof provided you obtain a healthy animal. No aggression towards other fish. Shy at first but very friendly now.

Not sure I helped but there you have it. All the best.

These are all great points. The fact that my tank only has 36" of swimming room in either direction has been my main sticking point. It's great to have a 100+ gallon tank, but these dimensions are still a bit limiting. Years ago I had a blue hippo in a 75 and really regretted it. She was constantly pacing back and forth across the front glass before we rehomed her.

I posted some pics and a video of the rock scape from back in June. I don't have any other large fish, and only plan to have 1 or 2 as the centerpiece fish. The rest are small/typical reef fish.

 

[1112-425XL]

Great to hear, and beautiful fish! How've you found her to be personality wise?

Her and my male blue throat trigger are always right out front when they see me coming. She's likes to see what's going on. (Side note) She has never touched a coral.

 

[areefer01]

These are all great points. The fact that my tank only has 36" of swimming room in either direction has been my main sticking point. It's great to have a 100+ gallon tank, but these dimensions are still a bit limiting. Years ago I had a blue hippo in a 75 and really regretted it. She was constantly pacing back and forth across the front glass before we rehomed her.

I posted some pics and a video of the rock scape from back in June. I don't have any other large fish, and only plan to have 1 or 2 as the centerpiece fish. The rest are small/typical reef fish.

Thanks - as I mentioned I'm not one to judge sizes and what not so was just passing along my experience. You have a nice size display. I'm sure which ever one you choose it will be amazing. All the best!

 

[Ryans Reef]

I found a good video from Ty that shows both fish (well close... looks like he has the Swallowtail's sister, genicanthus semifasciatus).



Wondering if these pics of the Swallowtail (genicanthus melanospilos) are accurate? In several videos of them, including Ty's they look a bit more subdued in coloration than the pics online.

For instance in this video they look incredible:



Could be the lighting, diet, age, or how far removed from the wild they are I guess?

 

[nereefpat]

The pic is very accurate for our tanks.

In daylight, they may look a little brighter.

 

[albano]

no doubt pyramid. Pyramid is one of those fish that looks much better in person, especially in a reef.

Absolutely… more people comment on my pyramids than any other fish

 

[i cant think]

Really appreciate all the replies!

I think my biggest hindrance has been that most sites have the minimum tank size at 125 gal, which is 6'x2'x18". So a lot more swimming space (at least length wise) whereas I've only got 3'. But it sounds like either could work perhaps?

These are some older photos of when the tank was first set up back in June, but gives you guys an idea of what the rockscape is like.

And here's a video walkaround:

A 3’x3’ tank diagonally is actually a lot of swim room, also aren’t on about Genicanthus semifasciatus or Genicanthus melanospilos as both are known as Swallowtail Angels but one is mostly from Indonesia (melanospilos) and the other is mostly found around Japan and south to the Philippines (semifasciatus).

I have a feeling you mean Semifasciatus as you said ‘Japanese Swallowtail’ whilst the Melanospilos is most commonly known as a Spotbreast Angelfish and not called a Swallowtail often - likely due to the confusion seen above. Both are similar in care however one is considerably more pricey.
Here’s a comparison of the two (none of these are my photos);

Female G. semifasciatus

Male G. semifasciatus

Female G. melanospilos

Male G. melanospilos

 

[Ryans Reef]

A 3’x3’ tank diagonally is actually a lot of swim room, also aren’t on about Genicanthus semifasciatus or Genicanthus melanospilos as both are known as Swallowtail Angels but one is mostly from Indonesia (melanospilos) and the other is mostly found around Japan and south to the Philippines (semifasciatus).

I have a feeling you mean Semifasciatus as you said ‘Japanese Swallowtail’ whilst the Melanospilos is most commonly known as a Spotbreast Angelfish and not called a Swallowtail often - likely due to the confusion seen above. Both are similar in care however one is considerably more pricey.
Here’s a comparison of the two (none of these are my photos);

Female G. semifasciatus

Male G. semifasciatus

Female G. melanospilos

Male G. melanospilos

Very interesting. I think I’m a victim of the Google search algorithms haha. The one I’ve been most interested in is I believe a Female G. melanospilos. Mainly to do with the brightness of the yellow dorsally and the teal hue to the anal and caudal fins.

Which of the 2 is the pricey one? The male of the G. semifasciatus is stunning for sure. But for the female I think I prefer the G. melanospilos.