Kessil LED vs Halide T5

[Ztrain]

Something that I'm curious about. Currently I'm using a XR15 G4 with the AB+ settings from the coral lab. Except for high silica my ICP scores are almost right down the line green. 79 degrees on the tank. But I don't see a lot of growth. I'm new with corals after being fish and hair only for a long time. So what people call good growth I maybe saying common already. Just putting my lack of experience in context.

But on my system Corallabs colors was super blue. Even more blue then the 20k setting. But I've been researching and recently ordered a Metal Halide setup. Now going back everyone says the Radium 20k is good for coloration with some growth. If you really want to see growth though run a 10k or even better 6.5k bulb. Not great to look at but you'll grow corals fast. But then Corallabs says best growth is under super blue settings. They both can't be right can they?

 

[rtparty]

Something that I'm curious about. Currently I'm using a XR15 G4 with the AB+ settings from the coral lab. Except for high silica my ICP scores are almost right down the line green. 79 degrees on the tank. But I don't see a lot of growth. I'm new with corals after being fish and hair only for a long time. So what people call good growth I maybe saying common already. Just putting my lack of experience in context.

But on my system Corallabs colors was super blue. Even more blue then the 20k setting. But I've been researching and recently ordered a Metal Halide setup. Now going back everyone says the Radium 20k is good for coloration with some growth. If you really want to see growth though run a 10k or even better 6.5k bulb. Not great to look at but you'll grow corals fast. But then Corallabs says best growth is under super blue settings. They both can't be right can they?

This is probably for another thread but don't forget who put out the Coral Lab paper: Ecotech. You can read into that however you like. The Ecotech fan base will even throw around World Wide Corals' name to solidify their point.

I have NOTHING against Ecotech. I have 2 MP10wQDs that I absolutely love and I think the new diffuser takes their lights to a new level. So much so that I've contemplated getting the Aquatic Life hybrid and an XR15 to run on my tank. Then I see my tank under a Radium bulb and get rid of that crazy notion.

The Radion name literally comes from trying to copy and emulate the Radium bulb (which they didn't achieve IMO.) At least not at first.

I've always found growth is determined more by stable parameters and available food.

 

[A. grandis]

This is probably for another thread but don't forget who put out the Coral Lab paper: Ecotech. You can read into that however you like. The Ecotech fan base will even throw around World Wide Corals' name to solidify their point.

I have NOTHING against Ecotech. I have 2 MP10wQDs that I absolutely love and I think the new diffuser takes their lights to a new level. So much so that I've contemplated getting the Aquatic Life hybrid and an XR15 to run on my tank. Then I see my tank under a Radium bulb and get rid of that crazy notion.

The Radion name literally comes from trying to copy and emulate the Radium bulb (which they didn't achieve IMO.) At least not at first.

I've always found growth is determined more by stable parameters and available food.

I actually think that we consumers would have to be opposed to such actions from any company in our midst. Can you imagine if all the aquarium companies, including the stores, like BRS, would do that? Can you imagine BRS publishing the videos trying to sell you their products and ignoring real facts?
If that is true, it shows the character of the company and it's not cool.
Yes, the "Radion" name is to literally try to emulate "Radium".
That's the way I see. Huge old strategy. There was a need to auto affirm themselves since the beginning and step into the market to win! Radion fixtures won't get even closer to Radiums, but that kinda of pursuit their users, giving them the comfort to try and keep thinking that was a good deal. And it works!
Do you think they work with those scientist's vests? Huuummmm....
I can't fully blame EcoTech for it cause they are doing business. They sure are doing good. They even got Dr. Sanjay and Mr. Paletta into their party!!! Are you kidding?! Haha! I think we are the ones to analyze and see for ourselves too. I still hope Dr. Sanjay will wake up from the nightmare soon...
The thing with World Wide Corals and that apple paper is just another chapter. It's so sad that many intelligent people could fall into their net. But WWC are into the business and the partnership was in their vision probably a strong hit.
I still kinda think that WWC had a true belief in those lights and had to choose it because of the circumstances in regards to the electricity available for the whole store after expanding to the new area at that time. It all came together at that time. That's what many confirmed here in the forum too. I could feel that when I called them back then.
Many also have said how "bad" those LEDs are doing today and I wish WWC would change it.
I would be humbly happy for them.
Anyways...
IMHO growth and color would have a lot to do with the quality of light we choose in the first place. And all aspects of light would play with the color/growth factors. Of course there are other secondary factors, like feeding, water chemistry and stability.
Just my opinion.
Grandis.

 

[leepink23]

I get great growth and color on my sps and zoas with AB+, just ordered the Seneye,with the BRS sale, so soon I will know PAR. I want to either add the diffusers or T5 to to add to, not because they don't work.

 

[d2mini]

Of course Ecotech would benefit from publishing papers like Coral Lab, but IMO they should be commended for it.
At least they're willing to do the research. Not one other LED company is doing it. For years people have wished that these led manufacturers would release pre-programmed spectrums that were gauranteed to grow and color up coral, similar to purchasing a MH bulb. This way you know what to expect and if you are having problems with your coral you know it's not your spectrum.
Finally somebody does it. If it boosts their sales, good for them. All the information coming out of it is doing nothing but benefiting the community.
It has even gone beyond spectrum and into (surprising) PAR and DLI findings.
I'm not saying that LED beat MH and/or T5, but thanks to companies like Ecotech that gap is rapidly closing.

 

[A. grandis]

Of course Ecotech would benefit from publishing papers like Coral Lab, but IMO they should be commended for it.
At least they're willing to do the research. Not one other LED company is doing it. For years people have wished that these led manufacturers would release pre-programmed spectrums that were gauranteed to grow and color up coral, similar to purchasing a MH bulb. This way you know what to expect and if you are having problems with your coral you know it's not your spectrum.
Finally somebody does it. If it boosts their sales, good for them. All the information coming out of it is doing nothing but benefiting the community.
I'm not saying that LED beat MH and/or T5, but thanks to companies like Ecotech that gap is rapidly closing.

I agree with you on that part. That helps a lot their customers. My observations weren't related to that though.

Grandis.

 

[d2mini]

I agree with you on that part. That helps a lot their customers. My observations weren't related to that though.

Grandis.

But you talk about people like Sanjay and various coral farms as "falling into their net", like it's a bad thing.
Quite the opposite! It's people/companies like this that we NEED to double check Ecotech's findings. Sorry to say but forum dorks like you and I don't hold much weight on the issue!

 

[reefwiser]

Ronny Schopke just announce a LED light he spent two years testing on coral tanks before he even announced it for sale.
http://aquaconnect.com/shop/Lighting/SUNmotion/::5903.html
Sadly most LED companies ship lights then wait for hobbyist to figure out how to get them to work.

 

[A. grandis]

But you talk about people like Sanjay and various coral farms as "falling into their net", like it's a bad thing.
Quite the opposite! It's people/companies like this that we NEED to double check Ecotech's findings. Sorry to say but forum dorks like you and I don't hold much weight on the issue!

That's not the way a moderator should express himself here. Shame on you!
I sure think I've been contributing and learning more than beating others.
I wasn't expecting such disrespect from you.
Better choose to stop posting in respect to other friends and for the sake of this thread.
Grandis.

 

[DSC reef]

That's not the way a moderator should express himself here. Shame on you!
I sure think I've been contributing and learning more than beating others.
I wasn't expecting such disrespect from you.
Better choose to stop posting in respect to other friends and for the sake of this thread.
Grandis.

I think you took that post very wrong.

 

[rtparty]

But you talk about people like Sanjay and various coral farms as "falling into their net", like it's a bad thing.
Quite the opposite! It's people/companies like this that we NEED to double check Ecotech's findings. Sorry to say but forum dorks like you and I don't hold much weight on the issue!

While I don't agree with a lot of what Grandis said, when a company gives someone thousands and thousands of dollars of stuff, you do have to question if everyone is being honest. At least I do because it was specifically requested of me by a company to give a glowing review of a product if I wished to continue testing for them. When I told them I'll be honest, I never saw another product sent in for testing.

(No, it was not Ecotech. I've never tested for them.)

 

[rtparty]

I think you took that post very wrong.

Agreed.

Dennis called himself a dork as well. As most of us on here truly are.

 

[d2mini]

That's not the way a moderator should express himself here. Shame on you!
I sure think I've been contributing and learning more than beating others.
I wasn't expecting such disrespect from you.
Better choose to stop posting in respect to other friends and for the sake of this thread.
Grandis.

What exactly was offensive to you? I was merely stating my opinion on the matter.

While I don't agree with a lot of what Grandis said, when a company gives someone thousands and thousands of dollars of stuff, you do have to question if everyone is being honest. At least I do because it was specifically requested of me by a company to give a glowing review of a product if I wished to continue testing for them. When I told them I'll be honest, I never saw another product sent in for testing.

(No, it was not Ecotech. I've never tested for them.)

Yep very true! But some of us are honest.
For instance the vid of mine posted earlier in this thread, I was given those lights by Ecotech. I had Gen ones before any of you knew they even existed.
After a couple years, I gave them up and was completely honest about it. I'm small fry compared to an outfit like WWC but hey, that's gotta count for something.

Regardless though, I would think that if a company like WWC who's livelihood depends on the health of their livestock is not having good results, they will HAVE to switch back and we'll eventually hear about it.
Don't ya think?
And if they are not having success at first, I would think they'd be experimenting with various spectrums and par themselves before giving up.
Either way it's a win win for us.
Of course I could be totally wrong! It has happened!

 

[rtparty]

What exactly was offensive to you? I was merely stating my opinion on the matter.



Yep very true! But some of us are honest.
For instance the vid of mine posted earlier in this thread, I was given those lights by Ecotech. I had Gen ones before any of you knew they even existed.
After a couple years, I gave them up and was completely honest about it. I'm small fry compared to an outfit like WWC but hey, that's gotta count for something.

Regardless though, I would think that if a company like WWC who's livelihood depends on the health of their livestock is not having good results, they will HAVE to switch back and we'll eventually hear about it.
Don't ya think?
And if they are not having success at first, I would think they'd be experimenting with various spectrums and par themselves before giving up.
Either way it's a win win for us.
Of course I could be totally wrong! It has happened!

I'm not questioning Ecotech or WWC. I fully believe WWC that they love the Radions.

I do think their setup as a whole can't be compared to most of our tanks. Massive water volume, perfected chemistry (they are far better than I am), very mature systems, lights way higher than normal. I think they're even higher than yours...[emoji3]

I do honestly question if they would abandon ship quickly if things weren't perfect for them. Pride has a funny way of controlling us even if we won't admit it. With that said, I believe them completely when they say they are happy with the Radions and I hope so. I also hope they've found ways to improve the fixtures and Ecotech listens.

I've just found to not fully and 100% trust companies in any segment when money is on the line for them. The truly honest companies are few and far between IMO.

 

[A. grandis]

I think you took that post very wrong.

Agreed.

Dennis called himself a dork as well. As most of us on here truly are.

I got it now... I misunderstood.
Grandis.

 

[d2mini]

I'm not questioning Ecotech or WWC. I fully believe WWC that they love the Radions.

I do think their setup as a whole can't be compared to most of our tanks. Massive water volume, perfected chemistry (they are far better than I am), very mature systems, lights way higher than normal. I think they're even higher than yours...[emoji3]

I do honestly question if they would abandon ship quickly if things weren't perfect for them. Pride has a funny way of controlling us even if we won't admit it. With that said, I believe them completely when they say they are happy with the Radions and I hope so. I also hope they've found ways to improve the fixtures and Ecotech listens.

I've just found to not fully and 100% trust companies in any segment when money is on the line for them. The truly honest companies are few and far between IMO.

Yep, i totally get your points and fully agree.
I guess I'm just being a tad optimistic or whatever. haha

And yes, I think good or bad, it should only help improve Radions, and LED lighting in general. The more people out there providing ecotech with valuable information like that the better.
These people may or may not have gotten some freebie lighting, but in a sense they are now working for ecotech, providing further research. Desperately needed research.

 

[Ztrain]

Okay so as a general rule what's better for growth? 6500K or 20k+?

Z

 

[DSC reef]

How's those frags looking @BoomCorals

 

[A. grandis]

Yep, i totally get your points and fully agree.
I guess I'm just being a tad optimistic or whatever. haha

And yes, I think good or bad, it should only help improve Radions, and LED lighting in general. The more people out there providing ecotech with valuable information like that the better.
These people may or may not have gotten some freebie lighting, but in a sense they are now working for ecotech, providing further research. Desperately needed research.

I'm so sorry to say this, but their "research" or "further research" is or will be nothing more than improvement for their own products and for the their profit, carefully designed and directed to their marketing interests. Again, there is nothing wrong with that in any business. Their supposed "research" doesn't help at all companies like Kessil or others that I would consider better LED product than theirs.
I'm not here to fire on them "just because", but after that PDF I just think we should wake up and try to analyze the situation better.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

How's those frags looking @BoomCorals

+1
Grandis.