KH Carer Review and Experience

MarineandReef Jaron

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I wanted to start a thread giving my experience with the new Kamoer KH Carer.

I have recently started using the Kamoer KH carer. Before I go into what I think of the unit I thought I should explain why I got one.

My tank is a RedSea 750XXL I set the tank up after moving to my new home 5 years ago Pic of my previous tank below sorry about the poor resolution.
Old Tank Shot.JPG


With my new tank I removed alot of the corals and tried to restart everything from frags. The SPS started to do well until I flew back with reefapalooza Chicago with some frags last year. I am not sure what happened but as soon as I put the new SPS frags in all of my SPS RTNd. It was like they brought in some kind of bacterial infection. I have been trying to rebuild the tank but everything has been RTNing. What compounded the issue was that as the SPS RTNd my Alk shot up from 9 to 12 and I think that made everything worse. I felt that if I had caught the problem sooner I could have reduced my dosing and I might not have lost all of the SPS but because I didn't the alk spike just made the RTN even worse.

I started testing with a Hanna Checker every daily to mitigate this problem but SPS have not been able to live in the tank since. I eventually slipped into testing every 3-5 days due to life. I became a new Dad 2 months ago and the daily testing is just not an achievable thing any moire. I started getting actual SPS growth about a month ago and then left on a hunting trip. When I came home I found the rug by the tank soggy. The glass redsea sump had cracked from top to bottom and water was dripping out. Amazingly only about 5-10 gallons of water was on the floor and the leak slipped right around where I had my leak sensors placed. The tank's salinity dropped from 1.026 to 1.021 and my alk was again at 11.5 when it was at 8.5 before I left. All SPS died except for 1 Acro.

I learned a couple of things.

1. I need more leak sensors
2. I need some way of automating KH testing. My most successful tanks were when I worked at the LFS and I had hours next to the tank every day and I could pay attention to every detail. I dosed everything manually and tested everything manually but I can't do that now with where I am in life.

I picked up a KH Carer as a Christmas gift to myself. I chose the KH carer over the other automatic KH testers for a couple of reasons.

1. I wanted something that I could use stand-alone. I don't always use controllers and I use different controller ecosystems so I really didn't want something proprietary.
2. I wanted to be able to maintain the unit myself and the simple titration-based testing system that uses a pH probe and dosing pumps was something I could easily take care of myself.
3. I liked the affordability of the reagents and the fact that the reagent is not proprietary.
4. I prefer good hardware over good software. I will put up with a buggy app if it means stuff doesn't break. Since Kamoer makes the internals of some other testers and I have had good experiences with their dosing pumps I thought that the hardware in the Kamoer would be the best available.

I went to set up the unit this weekend. The instructions included are awful and make no sense, But once I opened the App and added the unit the app walks you through the initial setup. you need to calibrate the pH probe, the saltwater feed pump that adds tank water to the testing beaker, calibrate the KH dosing pump, and prime the reagent pump. I was surprised you don't calibrate the regent pump or the wastewater pump but I have since learned that the exact flow rate of the waste pump doesn't matter. It just needs to empty the beaker after the test. The reagent pump can be calibrated but there is more on that later. The pH probe comes with pH 7.0 and pH 9.89 solution but you can also use pH 4 and pH 7 which is good for maintenance.

I called CoralVue and they recommended testing with the unit 12 times per day for 1 day before doing the final calibration to let all of the pumps and tubing break in. The unit was 4 dKH higher than my Hanna Checker at this time. After the break-in, you can calibrate the reagent pump. The app lets you calibrate the regent pump traditionally or you can perform a test and then tell the app what the actual alk is. It then infers the correct reagent flow rate. I decided to calibrate to my Hanna Checker and this worked well for me. This morning Hanna read 8.1 and KH Carer read 8.15.

I realized after the fact that I needed dosing containers for the KH reagent and KH buffer. So I added them in yesterday. This messed up the calibration and I needed to recalibrate again. You can choose to have a third container for your waste or add the waste back to the tank. The reagent is sulfuric acid so it will lower the pH of the tank slightly if you add it back to the tank. I have been adding the waste to the tank and have not noticed any pH drop.

Right now I am just testing and not dosing. I don't plan on dosing with the unit for some time. Right now my alk demand is met with kalk and I want to keep using kalk until I can't and then I will add in alk solution with the KH Carer.

So far I like the unit. It seems any time you replace the reagent, alter the tubing length, or generally mess with the unit it will need to be recalibrated but recalibrating is simple and once it is dialed in I shouldn't need to touch it very often. I plan to mix up a large container of regent to avoid frequent recalibration.

The alkalinity seems consistent with my Hanna checker but the pH reading does not match my Apex. I recalibrated both probes with the same solutions last night and they still don't match. My Apex is reading 8.0 to 8.2 and the KH Carer is reading 7.6-7.8 and it only reads when it tests. I believe the little bit of leftover sulfuric acid on the probe and test beaker skews the results down.

Stay tuned for more updates.
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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Per the advice of others on reef2reef I have changed the number of rinses that the testing vessel gets after each test. I am trying 3 rinses from the default 1 rinse. I will see if this helps.
 

JeffB418

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Please update as you can… interested in purchasing this to integrate into Hydros.
You can add independent inputs to Hydros for both sampled pH and Alkalinity results. All you do is use the "secret key" hash from the kamoer app and hydros uses that to fetch your data from the Kamoer cloud for your device. You can set safe ranges for the input and have Hydros alert you if they are out of range. You can also setup a stale sample window, where if you test hourly, and you set the stale alarm to 3 hours, and for some reason your KHC either failed to test or went offline you would get an alert. Also if you use the alkalinity input for dynamic dosing or controlling a Cal RX, hydros can use the "stale reading" state to fall back onto a default setting while readings arent being updated as a safety fallback. Also theres graphing as well.

1672864462026.png
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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This tank has an Apex now. I feel I need to have both since I sell both and I will admit I have considered switching to Hydros on this tank but I would need to keep the Apex as it helps me do support and Moving it just sounds like alot of work. I have a hydros on one of our office tanks and really like it. I would also like to add a hydros to my desk tank and my FOWLR tank but haven't gotten there yet.
 

Tompickles

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Following along, I’ve been interested in getting this unit for my tank
 

JeffB418

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This tank has an Apex now. I feel I need to have both since I sell both and I will admit I have considered switching to Hydros on this tank but I would need to keep the Apex as it helps me do support and Moving it just sounds like alot of work. I have a hydros on one of our office tanks and really like it. I would also like to add a hydros to my desk tank and my FOWLR tank but haven't gotten there yet.
Add your KHC to your office tank, even just for the secondary alerts and graphing potential.

Or pick up one of the new XD Hydros Drive Controller that came out this week. Pair it with 3 dosers, and your KHC and bam you have 3 part dosing controlled by KHC. Dynamic Dosing on hydros is the same concept as Trident Controlled Dosing on Apex, just that you can do it with any tester input and any doser type. It's covered here: https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/add-dosing-regimen-schedule/
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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This morning I had the KH Carer Test and tested with Hanna. The KH Carer came back with 7.7 and the Hanna Checker at 8.2 The Hanna is in line with what I expected and I believe it is correct. I am not sure what caused the KH Carer to shift but It may have been my change to 3 rinses instead of 1. I have recalibrated and will continue to check for consistency and accuracy.
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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Add your KHC to your office tank, even just for the secondary alerts and graphing potential.

Or pick up one of the new XD Hydros Drive Controller that came out this week. Pair it with 3 dosers, and your KHC and bam you have 3 part dosing controlled by KHC. Dynamic Dosing on hydros is the same concept as Trident Controlled Dosing on Apex, just that you can do it with any tester input and any doser type. It's covered here: https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/add-dosing-regimen-schedule/
Office tank is just softies with no dosing so it seems like a bit of overkill.
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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Since recalibrating my unit after adjusting the rinse amount to 3 rinses. After 5 tests everything is perfectly aligned with Hanna.

My conclusion is that the unit is accurate but you need to recalibrate after you change anything. It is probably best to just leave the unit alone.
 

thatslife

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I am using KHC in Vietnam, mine is 1st one. There are somethings I can write here:

Goods:
- Very good connection to cloud, can access anytime anywhere without interruption. To compare with my ex-GHL, almost the time cannot remote outside.
- Kamoer Team supports quite good, I already asked and get their work done for app optimization.
- Easy to use, fast calibration.

Bads:
- High consumption for reagent per test, it should be around 14-18ml. I take 3 times testing per day, and it tooks 2 reagent bottle for a month.
- There is only 1 COM Port.

Advice:

- Magnet stiring need to change from 50% to 10%. With high-speed of stiring can cause magnet stirrer fly away from its location (middle). This will cause the false positive alert for KH. Example false positive of KH can reach over 20 dKH at the time.
- Updating Firmware: There are 2 parts of updating: Application Update via App-Store and Device Firmware Update. Sometimes it will reset some settings or ask you to re-calibrate the whole device. Need to check very carefully.
- After check and done for updates, you will need to switch-off function "Keep KH" and do manual test to make sure your KH is accurate. If "Keep KH" feature is still with wrong test, it can dose amount directly into the tank.
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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Kamoer has an interface box that allows you to run a second pump along side the internal pump for 2 part dosing
I don't believe this is in the US yet. Is there any way to synchronize the additional pump to the KH pump? I am thinking of 2 parts like ESV that need to be dosed in equal proportions.
 

JeffB418

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I don't believe this is in the US yet. Is there any way to synchronize the additional pump to the KH pump? I am thinking of 2 parts like ESV that need to be dosed in equal proportions.
Not until the KH carer e1 is released. Then you can do this:

A60496A6-A017-4453-8821-68EFDF1C08CD.jpeg D28F2C19-9699-4D22-A380-0E479396B3AC.jpeg
 

n2585722

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I don't believe this is in the US yet. Is there any way to synchronize the additional pump to the KH pump? I am thinking of 2 parts like ESV that need to be dosed in equal proportions.
If you have a Hydros controller you can use the KH Carer readings within the Hydros controller to do the other additives.
 

n2585722

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This morning I had the KH Carer Test and tested with Hanna. The KH Carer came back with 7.7 and the Hanna Checker at 8.2 The Hanna is in line with what I expected and I believe it is correct. I am not sure what caused the KH Carer to shift but It may have been my change to 3 rinses instead of 1. I have recalibrated and will continue to check for consistency and accuracy.
I had similar issues and changed the KH buffer I was using to baked baking soda in DI. I was using baking soda in DI. I think the KH Carer has a slower reaction time with just baking soda. I also drop back from three times a day to 2 times a day for testing. Below is a chart of test from the KH Carer and the Hanna. I also put the KH Carer and the Hydros pH reading on the chart also. I don't expect those to match but they apper to drift away gradually since they were calibrated. Both probes are new so that might settle on the next calibration. I think I am going to like it better with the two readings a day. With three I was not able to plot them all since I was not at home for some and others I was not up so only the ones that also had a Hanna reading were plotted on the graph. But it seems to be a lot closer to each other with a longer time frame between test.

D2451E51-A041-4606-B6BF-6715FA0B587E.png
 
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MarineandReef Jaron

MarineandReef Jaron

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Right now I am just using kalkwasser through my F4. I have not noticed a lag in readings but I am dosing every hour so there shouldn't be much change.
 

n2585722

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Right now I am just using kalkwasser through my F4. I have not noticed a lag in readings but I am dosing every hour so there shouldn't be much change.
You have a point about spreading it out more. I have a limit of 2.5ml per dose and total add per test is 12ml. the dose is done every 30 minutes. I might change that to every hour and see if that helps with the readings.
 

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