Knowing NH3 from NH4Cl?

[AdamLajner]

Hi, I have a test for concentration of NH4Cl, but need to know the concentration NH3. I've been digging for information/calculations about it for at least 3 hours and this is what I come up with:

Test results: NH4Cl - 250ppm

I did excel calculations, seen below, on how to get from NH4Cl grams to NH3 ppm, but the tricky part is that i only know ppm and also i didn't account much for pH.
Is it even possible to calculate without any more additional testing or other info?
This similar topic was discussed also here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonium-chloride-addition-calculation.246549/
Thanks,
Adam

 

[Dan_P]

Hi, I have a test for concentration of NH4Cl, but need to know the concentration NH3. I've been digging for information/calculations about it for at least 3 hours and this is what I come up with:

Test results: NH4Cl - 250ppm

I did excel calculations, seen below, on how to get from NH4Cl grams to NH3 ppm, but the tricky part is that i only know ppm and also i didn't account much for pH.
Is it even possible to calculate without any more additional testing or other info?
This similar topic was discussed also here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonium-chloride-addition-calculation.246549/
Thanks,
Adam

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

 

[AdamLajner]

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

well the problem with this calculator is that it doesn't calculate with NH4Cl

 

[gbroadbridge]

well the problem with this calculator is that it doesn't calculate with NH4Cl

Ammonium Chloride is 32% Ammonia by weight.

 

[AdamLajner]

Ammonium Chloride is 32% Ammonia by weight.

Okay so at any given pH, is it still 32% + temperature? But I know only in ppm, not grams, so can convert it to grams tho? So if I have 250ppm> 0,24971g/l> 0,24971*number of liters in the tank. Correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Can you explain more what you are doing?

There is no hobby test that detects ammonium and not ammonia. Tests are either NH3 or total NH3 and NH4+.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Okay so at any given pH, is it still 32% + temperature? But I know only in ppm, not grams, so can convert it to grams tho? So if I have 250ppm> 0,24971g/l> 0,24971*number of liters in the tank. Correct?

No, that approach is not appropriate for what you are likely doing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

This article shows graphs of NH3 and NH4+ as a function of pH in seawater. The calculator above does the same (though it may be for freshwater).

 

[AdamLajner]

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

This article shows graphs of NH3 and NH4+ as a function of pH in seawater. The calculator above does the same (though it may be for freshwater).

So you say no matter if I get 250ppm of NH3+NH4 or 250ppm of NH4Cl, the amount of NH3 is the same, so I can use the calculator above? https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

I'm sorry if i sound too dumb, this is really new to me

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So you say no matter if I get 250ppm of NH3+NH4 or 250ppm of NH4Cl, the amount of NH3 is the same, so I can use the calculator above? https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

I'm sorry if i sound too dumb, this is really new to me

No, that is not correct.

We need to really back up and find out what it is exactly that you are trying to do. I expect you are way overcomplicating something simple.

 

[AdamLajner]

No, that is not correct.

We need to really back up and find out what it is exactly that you are trying to do. I expect you are way overcomplicating something simple.

I have a water test kit for my 70l aquarium, stripes, which measures Ammonia Chloride on a scale of 0-100-150-250-500ppm, but this is kinda useless, right? i need to know just Ammonia. So I'm thinking about how to know it from the scale I have and if it is even useful to measure it with my stripes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have a water test kit for my 70l aquarium, stripes, which measures Ammonia Chloride on a scale of 0-100-150-250-500ppm, but this is kinda useless, right? i need to know just Ammonia. So I'm thinking about how to know it from the scale I have and if it is even useful to measure it with my stripes.

I do not believe that the strips act as you suggest (even if they say it), and the range is too high to be useful anyway. You’d more than likely want to know levels around 1 ppm or less total ammonia.

I’d suggest reading the article I posted, specifically about total and free ammonia.

 

[AdamLajner]

I do not believe that the strips act as you suggest (even if they say it), and the range is too high to be useful anyway. You’d more than likely want to know levels around 1 ppm or less total ammonia.

I’d suggest reading the article I posted, specifically about total and free ammonia.

At least that's what I thought, that it's too high to measure anything useful. Well, I'm gonna buy a drop test then, with a smaller scale!
Thanks! Did some reading but am still confused about Ammonia Chloride haha

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

At least that's what I thought, that it's too high to measure anything useful. Well, I'm gonna buy a drop test then, with a smaller scale!
Thanks! Did some reading but am still confused about Ammonia Chloride haha

The article clarifies that issue. Here are some pertinent passages:

My suggestion is to always measure total ammonia. If a kit gives a choice of measuring free ammonia, don't bother. You can always use a table to convert total ammonia to free ammonia if there is a strong reason to do so. The reason to measure total ammonia is that the signal will be much larger, so the kit will be more capable of distinguishing a small reading of ammonia from no detectable ammonia.

Ammonia Concentration Guidelines
Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system.

My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below.

 

[AdamLajner]

The article clarifies that issue. Here are some pertinent passages:

My suggestion is to always measure total ammonia. If a kit gives a choice of measuring free ammonia, don't bother. You can always use a table to convert total ammonia to free ammonia if there is a strong reason to do so. The reason to measure total ammonia is that the signal will be much larger, so the kit will be more capable of distinguishing a small reading of ammonia from no detectable ammonia.

Ammonia Concentration Guidelines
Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system.

My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below.

Perfect! i already feel im getting a little bit into it. Now i get it why you should meassure Total Amonia. Just need to know precise pH and temperature to know free Ammonia

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Perfect! i already feel im getting a little bit into it. Now i get it why you should meassure Total Amonia. Just need to know precise pH and temperature to know free Ammonia

That's right, but I'd argue such a determination of free NH3 is of relatively little value unless you are considering unusual situations where pH is far from a normal reef tank.

Since we lack exact values for what level of free ammonia is OK and what si not, we need to be fairly conservative on what is allowed, and knowing exactly how much is present is not necessarily critical.

 

[AdamLajner]

I've always read that only 0 free ammonia is safe or 0.02 mg/l

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've always read that only 0 free ammonia is safe or 0.02 mg/l

The zero requirement is not reality. I give guidelines in the article, but some more advanced reefers dose ammonia and I think that is a fine plan.

If your reef tank is already established with fish, there’s no need to be measuring ammonia except in emergency situations (like you find a big dead fish that is decomposing).