Lanthanum Chloride toxicity question

[BostonReefer300]

A question about lanthanum chloride (LaCl3) toxicity came up in another thread, so I decided to post it here for better exposure to experts. Although LaCl3 is obviously used widely in reef keeping, the material safety data sheet for LaCl3 clearly states that it is "toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects" (page 2, attached). Now, I'm fully aware that some warnings in MSDSs are included out of an over-abundance of caution based on, for example, one study done 30 years ago at a North Korean community college. That being said, does anyone on R2R know why this warning is included for LaCl3 and why it's nonetheless essentially ignored by the aquarium industry/hobby? [DISCLAIMER: I'm NOT hating on LaCl3 here---this is just an honest question.]. Thanks

 

[MnFish1]

Because the Lanthanum precipitates out at the high pH in a reef tank. It is then filtered or protein-skimmed out before it gets to the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've never seen any useful data on the toxicity of lanthanum at the levels typically encountered in reef aquaria.

FWIW, lanthanum is dosed to people to bind phosphate at multi gram levels per day, with minimal detectable issues.

 

[ss30]

Because the Lanthanum precipitates out at the high pH in a reef tank. It is then filtered or protein-skimmed out before it gets to the tank.

The idea is you dose it into a 25 micron filter sock to catch the precipitate.

 

[ss30]

I've never seen any useful data on the toxicity of lanthanum at the levels typically encountered in reef aquaria.

FWIW, lanthanum is dosed to people to bind phosphate at multi gram levels per day, with minimal detectable issues.

How much would be to much to dose into a reef tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How much would be to much to dose into a reef tank?

I do not know, as I've not seen any reliable tox data for organisms we keep.

Some folks report issues with tangs. That might even be from particulates, which likely won't be part of a standard tox test.

 

[Breadman03]

How much would be to much to dose into a reef tank?

I don't know about toxicity, but a few ml's of SeaKlear Commercial really knocks down the PO4 in my ~180 gallon system. I suspect that lack of available PO4 in the water column might be of concern before toxicity is an issue.

 

[MnFish1]

The idea is you does it into a 25 micron filter sock to catch the precipitate.

yes. It is filtered or skimmed out.

 

[ScottB]

How much would be to much to dose into a reef tank?

It is super effective in binding PO4 and therefore removing it from your system. In my system, following the instructions for Elimi-Phos it will remove about .07 to .09 worth with a single dose. So it depends on how much PO4 you want to remove.

 

[ScottB]

I don't know about toxicity, but a few ml's of SeaKlear Commercial really knocks down the PO4 in my ~180 gallon system. I suspect that lack of available PO4 in the water column might be of concern before toxicity is an issue.

+1

 

[ss30]

It is super effective in binding PO4 and therefore removing it from your system. In my system, following the instructions for Elimi-Phos it will remove about .07 to .09 worth with a single dose. So it depends on how much PO4 you want to remove.

I know it's good but what I was asking was how much would be needed to be toxic to the fish etc...

 

[ScottB]

I know it's good but what I was asking was how much would be needed to be toxic to the fish etc...

I am not sure any of us really know, but I have to believe it is much more than you would rationally dose for managing phosphates in an aquarium.

As Randy mentioned, though, there are posts & people that associate it's use with tang irritation. That has not been my experience following the recommended dose levels.

I can see how it would be easy to overdose if you don't follow the instructions given the potency. 1ml per 26gallons

 

[tehmadreefer]

I know it's good but what I was asking was how much would be needed to be toxic to the fish etc...

Have you read the responses? Nobody actually knows. Is it? Maybe? How much? Nobody really knows.

 

[josephxsxn]

Using Phosphate-E from Brightwell here.. used up to 10ml a day for a while but down to normally 1-2ml per day now on a doser. Never noticed any issues with my fish and have multiple Zebrasoma tangs which people claim are sensitive . For a while I dosed into a filter sock but gave that up and run it directly into my skimmer body now, have been doing that for the last few months with great success.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I know it's good but what I was asking was how much would be needed to be toxic to the fish etc...

And anyone who answers that is just guessing because the data is not available.

 

[Stigigemla]

The problems that can occur with lanthanum chloride is not toxicity.

One problem (highly disputable) is that flakes of lanthanum phosphate should be able to be stuck in the nose pores of fishes causing HLLE.

The other problem is a real one and it depends on the excellent phosphate binding capacity.
It is possible to wipe out algae with an overdose because they need phosphate to live. I have seen green hair algae bleach out and poisoning the water. Seahares and urchins can die. I have seen turbo snails die after lanthanum chloride and cyano death.
And of course there is a risk of killing corals. They need phosphate in the water for their zooxantells.

 

[schooncw]

I have a 120 mixed reef and have had a bottle of PhosBan-L, from Two Little Fishies for some time but have never used it. I am curious about the dosing, specifically, about manually adding it drop by drop-undiluted-to a filter sock? Any other "simple" methods out there?

 

[Eldredge]

Purely anecdotal, but I had a healthy arrow crab die the only time I used it. I did overflow the filter sock I was dosing into. I probably won't use it again. YMMV

 

[schooncw]

Purely anecdotal, but I had a healthy arrow crab die the only time I used it. I did overflow the filter sock I was dosing into. I probably won't use it again. YMMV

Because the filter sock got clogged after adding it?

 

[Eldredge]

Because the filter sock got clogged after adding it?

Yes. I didn't catch it in time, so it overflowed. I don't know if that was relevant or not.