Let's talk about PE, Bay-bee!

[d2mini]

Or more specifically, why I have none!

OK, not "none" on all but very little.
Color looks pretty dang good on most.
I have lots of encrusting and some are starting to branch out.
Time in my tank range from recently to nearly a year now.
Parameters are pretty decent with N03 8, P04 .05, AlK 8, CAL 380, Mag 1450
Two powerheads in the tank for flow.
Frags are spread out so flow and light intensity varies.
And I do ReefMoonshiners so all minor elements are within range. If anything gets low it's not for long.

1) Thoughts on why I don't get much PE?
2) What is PE (or lack thereof) a sign of?

Here's my best looking SPS. Best growth so far and best display of PE.
In contrast, you can kind of see the frag on the right has hardly any PE... you just see little dots of the retracted polyps.

Here's a few more examples.
You can see that color is good! PE not so much.
And some of these are Millis! They should be uber shaggy.

 

[Dburr1014]

What powerheads and settings?
I think more flow.

 

[TastyScrants]

Before making changes to your fundamentals, have you done an ICP to rule out any contaminants? We don’t have reef moonshiners in the UK so when you say you use that, I don’t know if it includes ICP analysis.

I’m currently in water change city trying to dilute out high tin and zinc which caused low polyp extension and later RTN/STN.

 

[Dmax]

Nice looking corals. I recently upgraded my home aquarium back in Oct 2023. I had frag systems running holding all my corals and fish. When I moved everything over to the new system I noticed the best PE I've ever had. Thought maybe I've nailed the flow and par requirements spot on. Over the past couple months I've noticed less PE on the majority of corals. I haven't been doing water changes like I should and also dosing moonshiners as well. I'm going to start regular water changes again and see if I notice a change in PE.

At night do you notice the PE? I've hit the tank with a little flash light at night and noticed it only at night.

I'm not familiar enough with the relationship between PE and the Zooxanthellae. Thought maybe my corals are receiving their needs from the lights vs the polyps feeding. Not sure if that's correct or even a thing. Reason I'm leaning towards that idea is the ones showing the best PE are lower in my tank receiving less par.

I also went from leds on the frag tanks back to MH. I initially only ran the halides for 2 hours trying not to shock all the corals. Over time slowly ramped them up to 5 hours a day. Currnetly running 4 reefbrite strips for the 10 hour period and the MH on from noon to 5.

 

[Battlecorals]

Any extension after the lights go out?

 

[d2mini]

What powerheads and settings?
I think more flow.

Octopulse 2 set pretty low, that thing is a beast.
And a GHL Versia Stream, set high.
Both are running their own version of random Reef Crest mode.
My tank is a 60g cube. If anything I've wondered if I have too much flow/too direct. I try to point them away from the coral as much as possible.

Before making changes to your fundamentals, have you done an ICP to rule out any contaminants? We don’t have reef moonshiners in the UK so when you say you use that, I don’t know if it includes ICP analysis.

I’m currently in water change city trying to dilute out high tin and zinc which caused low polyp extension and later RTN/STN.

Yes, an ICP from Oceamo every month or two.

Any extension after the lights go out?

Not much of any change that I've noticed.

 

[SamMule]

Have you checked for pests?
Black, red, or white bugs will reduce PE.

Do you have any fish that are potential coral nippers?

 

[d2mini]

Have you checked for pests?
Black, red, or white bugs will reduce PE.

Do you have any fish that are potential coral nippers?

God questions but I haven't seen any pests and it's not like this is a new thing so if I had something like red bugs they'd have been in there for the past year. lol
And no bite marks or other tissue damage.

Same answer pretty much with the only fish that I would say would be prone to nipping which is my coral beauty, one of the first fish in the tank.

 

[reefnfun]

I do not know if this will help you but I started dosing Acro Power 2 years and my polyp extension went crazy. I dose it twice a week. My sps coral grows really well. Get a small bottle and try it out.

 

[eg8r210]

God questions but I haven't seen any pests and it's not like this is a new thing so if I had something like red bugs they'd have been in there for the past year. lol
And no bite marks or other tissue damage.

Same answer pretty much with the only fish that I would say would be prone to nipping which is my coral beauty, one of the first fish in the tank.

My guess is the Coral Beauty. If all your power heads are not pointed directly at the coral, parameters stay stable, are all in range with Moonshiner recommendation and no pests then the next thing to look at is if anything is nipping. There is a good chance the Coral Beauty is nipping. Hopefully you can re-home the fish for a few weeks or month and see if there is any change with the PE.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

My guess is the Coral Beauty. If all your power heads are not pointed directly at the coral, parameters stay stable, are all in range with Moonshiner recommendation and no pests then the next thing to look at is if anything is nipping. There is a good chance the Coral Beauty is nipping. Hopefully you can re-home the fish for a few weeks or month and see if there is any change with the PE.

I'd first look for concrete evidence that the coral beauty is picking at them before you make any drastic decisions

 

[d2mini]

My guess is the Coral Beauty. If all your power heads are not pointed directly at the coral, parameters stay stable, are all in range with Moonshiner recommendation and no pests then the next thing to look at is if anything is nipping. There is a good chance the Coral Beauty is nipping. Hopefully you can re-home the fish for a few weeks or month and see if there is any change with the PE.

I'd first look for concrete evidence that the coral beauty is picking at them before you make any drastic decisions

Yeah, it's not a bad theory, but in a year I've never actually seen that fish (or any fish) bothering any of my corals.

And FWIW, all my LPS torches, hammers, octos, dendro, all look fantastic.

 

[d2mini]

I do not know if this will help you but I started dosing Acro Power 2 years and my polyp extension went crazy. I dose it twice a week. My sps coral grows really well. Get a small bottle and try it out.

I have something similar from Reef Moonshiners but haven't used it yet because I still have some green hair algae I'm battling. Don't want to add the extra fuel right now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Flow was my enemy. Ever since adding flow in many areas of tank- I see many polyps

 

[oldbob50]

all my LPS torches, hammers, octos, dendro, all look fantastic.

Everyone here has some good observations but I wonder if your SPS corals are lacking in something to catch. PE serves many purposes but those little tentacles are there to catch food from the water. My SPS corals have visible extension during the day and four times as much at night. At night my tank water is a blizzard of copepods. I load my tank with phytoplankton, Acro Power and copepods as well as target feeding the acros with Microvert during the day. I have bivalves and filter worms everywhere and fuzzy acros with very rapid growth. It is just a thought. If you don't have a lot of filter feeders in your tank maybe you don;\'t have enough small organic matter for the SPS corals to feed on.

 

[d2mini]

@oldbob50 oh yeah i forgot to mention i've been adding phyto from algae barn for the last month or so and added pods from them as well. All my rock and sand is from Tampa Bay Saltwater so it came full of microorganisms.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

@oldbob50 oh yeah i forgot to mention i've been adding phyto from algae barn for the last month or so and added pods from them as well. All my rock and sand is from Tampa Bay Saltwater so it came full of microorganisms.

Do you see any red/white/black bugs?

 

[Kyan]

I have the same issue. When I added my newly purchased sps frags they have excellent PE. After 2 weeks I lost PE with mostly my millis. Then some tenius follow suit. Parameters are all stable. Check also for pests but none shows signs. I also have a coral beauty and decided to transfer him to another tank, and voila after several days PE started peaking and getting better each passing days. Maybe you can give it a try.

 

[Big E]

Or more specifically, why I have none!

OK, not "none" on all but very little.
Color looks pretty dang good on most.
I have lots of encrusting and some are starting to branch out.
Time in my tank range from recently to nearly a year now.
Parameters are pretty decent with N03 8, P04 .05, AlK 8, CAL 380, Mag 1450
Two powerheads in the tank for flow.
Frags are spread out so flow and light intensity varies.
And I do ReefMoonshiners so all minor elements are within range. If anything gets low it's not for long.

1) Thoughts on why I don't get much PE?
2) What is PE (or lack thereof) a sign of?

Here's my best looking SPS. Best growth so far and best display of PE.
In contrast, you can kind of see the frag on the right has hardly any PE... you just see little dots of the retracted polyps.

Here's a few more examples.
You can see that color is good! PE not so much.
And some of these are Millis! They should be uber shaggy.

My observation--

The colors aren't good nor do any of those look healthy. They are surviving but not thriving.

A healthy frag may lose some polyp extension and color in this initial phase...........it's important to view/watch the base..........that's where the color and growth starts.

If the bases are growing daily then I would just wait and observe. Don't change anything for a few months to create stability. The intitial branch can look like a dormant stump but as long as the coral is putting energy into growing somewhere it's probably fine.

It's hard to tell what's up from a stagnant picture.........follow up with pics weekly or at least once a month. That's the best way to check progress.

Personally observe each coral daily, you'll notice changes. It takes maybe 5-15 minutes to scan the tank.

 

[ArachnoJoozt]

I do see very similar pests to the ones I had, see magnification of one of your pictures:

I don't exactly know what they are called, I called them parasitic copepods. I'm willing to bet you also don't have polyp extension at night. Try to look at them through a magnifying glass, you will see them scurrying around.
I tried to treat the most affected corals with potassium chloride outside of the tank, this helped for a bit, but was no solution. In the end I treated the whole tank with milbemax (milbemycin), this set the tank back a little bit, but solved the parasites. Polyp extension has been excellent since then. Good luck with your situation!

Edit: this is how they looked like in my tank: