Liquid Phosphate Remover Dosing Calculator

Which liquid phosphate remover do you prefer?

  • Blue Life™ Phosphate Rx™

    Votes: 57 23.5%
  • Brightwell® Aquatics Phosphat-E

    Votes: 109 44.9%
  • Two Little Fishies PhosBan®-L

    Votes: 11 4.5%
  • Bulk lanthanum chloride

    Votes: 22 9.1%
  • Other (respond in thread)

    Votes: 13 5.3%
  • I don't use a liquid phosphate remover

    Votes: 25 10.3%
  • Acrylic Tank Manufacturing Agent Green™

    Votes: 6 2.5%

  • Total voters
    243

cjpitt80

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For those of you dosing liquid phosphate removers, how are you tracking your PO4 levels? Hanna had me at 0.14ppm and same sample for Triton ICP (taken 2min later) tells me I'm at only 0.0068. I wouldn't expect them to be completely the same, but Hanna reading TWENTY times higher?! I'm at a loss of whether I have slightly elevated PO4 levels or too low levels.
Phosphat-E directs state:
"Phosphate test kits may show a false-positive reading after aquarium has been treated; this is a result of the chemical mechanism by which phosphate test kits operate and does not indicate that the product has failed to perform its intended function. The higher the percentage of bound phosphate removed by filtration, the more accurate test kit readings will be. "
The readings may be HIGHER than actual which of course means I have no idea where I'm at. I'm kinda completely lost now, but I've decided to STOP using Phosphat-E for now based on the high levels of Lanthanum detected. It would be nice to be able to directly measure accurate PO4

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David S

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For those of you dosing liquid phosphate removers, how are you tracking your PO4 levels? Hanna had me at 0.14ppm and same sample for Triton ICP (taken 2min later) tells me I'm at only 0.0068. I wouldn't expect them to be completely the same, but Hanna reading TWENTY times higher?! I'm at a loss of whether I have slightly elevated PO4 levels or too low levels.
Phosphat-E directs state:
"Phosphate test kits may show a false-positive reading after aquarium has been treated; this is a result of the chemical mechanism by which phosphate test kits operate and does not indicate that the product has failed to perform its intended function. The higher the percentage of bound phosphate removed by filtration, the more accurate test kit readings will be. "
The readings may be HIGHER than actual which of course means I have no idea where I'm at. I'm kinda completely lost now, but I've decided to STOP using Phosphat-E for now based on the high levels of Lanthanum detected. It would be nice to be able to directly measure accurate PO4

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The two test kits with some reliability IMO are the Red Sea and Elos "high resolution" Phosphate test kits.
Both are High resolution tests so if your Phosphates are too high you would have to dilute the sample.
The Elos is a bit expensive. Ditto the Red Sea, but you can get refills for the Red Sea, which cuts the cost considerably.
The problem with the reagents for the "new and improved" Red Sea kit is you have to be careful how you administer the drops. Particularly with the 2nd reagent, which uses a small pipette.
Once you get the knack, though, you'll get more consistent and, I feel accurate results from either kit than with the Hanna Checker
 

cjpitt80

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The two test kits with some reliability IMO are the Red Sea and Elos "high resolution" Phosphate test kits.
Both are High resolution tests so if your Phosphates are too high you would have to dilute the sample.
The Elos is a bit expensive. Ditto the Red Sea, but you can get refills for the Red Sea, which cuts the cost considerably.
The problem with the reagents for the "new and improved" Red Sea kit is you have to be careful how you administer the drops. Particularly with the 2nd reagent, which uses a small pipette.
Once you get the knack, though, you'll get more consistent and, I feel accurate results from either kit than with the Hanna Checker
Well, hopefully I can solve this soon. I don't know my true PO4 levels. Judging by the directions on the Phosphat-E I SHOULD have been way lower than what Hanna was reporting. Since Triton had me down at .007, I'm more apt to believe that. I made a 0.5ppm and 0.05ppm phosphate standard in the lab and tested it to 0.12ppm with Hanna The 0.5ppm standard tested out of range, above 0.90ppm. Again, I wouldn't expect it to be perfect given possible dilution variances in my prep method, but it wasn't 20X higher, so who knows?? I just ordered a proper standard traceable to NIST https://www.hach.com/phosphate-stan...nist-500-ml/product?id=7640201657&callback=qs So maybe this will give me further insight. I'm not sure if the BRStv guys have done something like this, or not but it'll be interesting to see and compare to one of the other tests. I need reliable home test kits as I don't want to spend $50 every time I wan't to monitor PO4 levels.

Also, apologies to the OP for HiJacking
 

Saintnovakai

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Larry you are a Godsend amigo. Been trying to get this for a while. Could you do the same for the Seaklear Phosphate remover? Here's hoping the photos are clear.
beda9b0713e30bfefaf5fc58e0993d53.jpg
0b525558390ae4347aa7ad28d773da0a.jpg
badea2ad6851184cb782e5f87bac5708.jpg
 

David S

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Well, hopefully I can solve this soon. I don't know my true PO4 levels. Judging by the directions on the Phosphat-E I SHOULD have been way lower than what Hanna was reporting. Since Triton had me down at .007, I'm more apt to believe that. I made a 0.5ppm and 0.05ppm phosphate standard in the lab and tested it to 0.12ppm with Hanna The 0.5ppm standard tested out of range, above 0.90ppm. Again, I wouldn't expect it to be perfect given possible dilution variances in my prep method, but it wasn't 20X higher, so who knows?? I just ordered a proper standard traceable to NIST https://www.hach.com/phosphate-stan...nist-500-ml/product?id=7640201657&callback=qs So maybe this will give me further insight. I'm not sure if the BRStv guys have done something like this, or not but it'll be interesting to see and compare to one of the other tests. I need reliable home test kits as I don't want to spend $50 every time I wan't to monitor PO4 levels.

Also, apologies to the OP for HiJacking
Thanks for the link to the Hach standard solution. Unfortunately it is for 1mg/l and for the most part we would be testing a lot lower than that.
Can I assume you would need to dilute their solution let's say by 10 times to get a sample that would be 0.10 mg/l, which would be more reasonable?
You mentioned the BRS guys and yes they have done this pretty recently.
They had, I believe, 4 people from their office do several tests each, for ALK, Calcium, & Magnesium. They removed any outliers from the samples and then averaged the results for each test by the different test kits, to get an average, which they assumed would be a proxy for the actual result. Here is the link:

OK so no Phosphate, but if you check out the following video, where they suggest which they consider the best Alkalinity test kits based on their samples, they mention that they may expand to Phosphate, as well.

I should point out that they picked the Hanna Alkalinity checker as the top performer.
In my personal experience, it is better than their Phosphate checker but I still had to return my Alk Checker within two months.
The only way I would go digital again is when they build a better mousetrap.
 

cjpitt80

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Thanks for the link to the Hach standard solution. Unfortunately it is for 1mg/l and for the most part we would be testing a lot lower than that.
Can I assume you would need to dilute their solution let's say by 10 times to get a sample that would be 0.10 mg/l, which would be more reasonable?
You mentioned the BRS guys and yes they have done this pretty recently.
They had, I believe, 4 people from their office do several tests each, for ALK, Calcium, & Magnesium. They removed any outliers from the samples and then averaged the results for each test by the different test kits, to get an average, which they assumed would be a proxy for the actual result. Here is the link:

OK so no Phosphate, but if you check out the following video, where they suggest which they consider the best Alkalinity test kits based on their samples, they mention that they may expand to Phosphate, as well.

I should point out that they picked the Hanna Alkalinity checker as the top performer.
In my personal experience, it is better than their Phosphate checker but I still had to return my Alk Checker within two months.
The only way I would go digital again is when they build a better mousetrap.


Yes, I found those links AFTER I ordered the standard lol. They did one with Hanna ULR phosPHOROUS vs the Marine phosPHATE, but not the Ultra Low Range phosPHATE (which I have). Indeed, 1ppm is too high, but 1mL of the standard in 9mL molecular biology grade water would yield 10mL 0.1ppm PO4 solution and I can dilute from there if necessary. Just checked PO4 in my tank and I'm at 0.15 today, after 0.10 yesterday so....ugh. it seems as though I'm not getting accurate OR precise measurements. I checked my RODI PO4 and got....0.00

NO3 has been stable at 5ppm for past week. I plan on removing about half the chaeto now to keep stable. I have the Hanna Alk checker which seems to be precise, if not accurate. Only thing is the reagent can go bad pretty fast and read way low ( I almost overly reacted because of this)
 

motortrendz

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Cant you put something together for diy lanthanium chloride? Maybe to mix stock solution and then how much to dose?
I haven't needed to in a while but I used to take straight lanthanum chloride 10ml mix with 1/2gallon of ro/di then dose 1ml per 10 gallons of the dilution right into the skimmer neck into the foam... that would turn my skimmatw black and sludgy and keep all the lanthanum contained in the skimmer. Some people used low micron filter socks to catch it as well.
 

csb123

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I have found that putting your water sample through a coffee filter yields a consistently lower po4 result with the Hanna checker...which if feel is likely more accurate.
 

csb123

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I don’t know why the filtered water give a different reading, but in my experience it is consistently lower than unfiltered tank water. I posed the question in the reef chemistry forum and Randy suggested that the floating particles may interfere with the Hanna reading. This is more pronounced if the tank was recently dosed with lanathum chloride.

I discovered this a couple of weeks ago, and am hoping others would try it, to prove/ disprove it.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Calcium tests may dissolve particulate calcium carbonate and read it as if it were dissolved. Thus, suspended calcium carbonate may lead to false high readings, if present. Filtering out solids will reduce this potential.

Particulates also scatter light and may lead to false high readings with Hanna if the same level of particulates are not present in the control sample that zeros the device.
 

Pyrosteve

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I just got Two Little Fishes Phosban L. They recommend only using it to get PO4 from .2 and above to .1 and then use PhosBan GFO to get to the desired 0.03. It states that LaCl is less effective at lower concentrations below .1 and can lead to residual LaCl in the aquarium. True or is this a CYA statement or made to sell more GFO??
 

cjpitt80

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Yeah I'm dealing with something like that now. My phosphates had been reading around .25ppm. I could only get down to about .15 with rowaPHOS in a mesh bag in sump. Started dosing Brightwell phosphat-E and got down to .08 over a couple weeks after dosing enough to have removed all according to directions. I tested again with Hanna at 0.14 and sent a Triton sample off same day (within 2min of testing). Triton comes back with a measurement of 0.0068ppm!! So now I'm at 0.20ppm according to Hanna, but I don't trust it. I ordered some NIST reference standards to test the Hanna. I wonder if my phosphates were ever low to begin with. I think I lowered too low too fast. My nutrients are totally out of whack now
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I just got Two Little Fishes Phosban L. They recommend only using it to get PO4 from .2 and above to .1 and then use PhosBan GFO to get to the desired 0.03. It states that LaCl is less effective at lower concentrations below .1 and can lead to residual LaCl in the aquarium. True or is this a CYA statement or made to sell more GFO??

All methods become less effective at lower phosphate. Whether that is important or not, it's hard to know.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Yeah I'm dealing with something like that now. My phosphates had been reading around .25ppm. I could only get down to about .15 with rowaPHOS in a mesh bag in sump.

You can certainly drive it as low as you want using enough GFO and replacing it often enough.
 

cjpitt80

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You can certainly drive it as low as you want using enough GFO and replacing it often enough.
Initially, my PO4 was 0.17ppm on 3/13. My goal was to reduce to 0.05ppm or under. I have a 75gal DT/29 gal Sump with about 80gal total volume. Taking into account the minimum efficiency from the medium I would experience, since I only had a bag in a sump and not a reactor, I used 50gr. 3/16, I read 0.10ppm PO4 . 3/20, I was down to 0.09ppm. 3/26, however I was up to 0.18ppm. I refreshed the mesh bag with 50gr new rowaPHOS. 3/31 I read 0.23. 4/3, down to 0.14 and refreshed the medium. 4/10 I'm at 0.10. 4/21, reading was 0.11ppm. 4/24 I'm up to 0.20ppm. On 5/8 I was down to 0.12ppm and changed the medium. On 5/18, the reading was at 0.19ppm. At this point, I figured that the small bag in the sump with media simply was simply too inefficient for my system and I removed the rowaPHOS and began dosing Brightwell Phosphat-E. I'm beginning to think that my Hanna reader was not accurate during this time.
 
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