Live Rock Cycling Question

situationlol · Jun 2, 2022

I see there have been a number of similar threads (so apologies for the duplication) but I'm not sure I see a clear answer.

I am converting my long time freshwater discus tank to my first saltwater tank (125 gallon). I intend to add 100 lbs of the premium deco live rock from Gulf Live Rock. I also have the MicroBacter tank starter from Brightwell Aquatics. What should be my procedure for setting up? After adding the water and salt and setting up all the equipment can I just go ahead and order the live rock and put in when it arrives? Will that insta cycle the tank? Or should I cycle first with the bottle bacteria and then order and add the live rock? Or does it not matter at all? Thanks for the help!

Garf · Jun 2, 2022

situationlol said:
I see there have been a number of similar threads (so apologies for the duplication) but I'm not sure I see a clear answer.

I am converting my long time freshwater discus tank to my first saltwater tank (125 gallon). I intend to add 100 lbs of the premium deco live rock from Gulf Live Rock. I also have the MicroBacter tank starter from Brightwell Aquatics. What should be my procedure for setting up? After adding the water and salt and setting up all the equipment can I just go ahead and order the live rock and put in when it arrives? Will that insta cycle the tank? Or should I cycle first with the bottle bacteria and then order and add the live rock? Or does it not matter at all? Thanks for the help!

You can add your live rock ontop of the dead rock, no need to cycle the dead rock if you don’t want (but you can). Then just monitor ammonia as you may get a bit of die off from the shipped live rock.

SlugSnorter · Jun 2, 2022

situationlol said:
I see there have been a number of similar threads (so apologies for the duplication) but I'm not sure I see a clear answer.

I am converting my long time freshwater discus tank to my first saltwater tank (125 gallon). I intend to add 100 lbs of the premium deco live rock from Gulf Live Rock. I also have the MicroBacter tank starter from Brightwell Aquatics. What should be my procedure for setting up? After adding the water and salt and setting up all the equipment can I just go ahead and order the live rock and put in when it arrives? Will that insta cycle the tank? Or should I cycle first with the bottle bacteria and then order and add the live rock? Or does it not matter at all? Thanks for the help!

everything can be added at the same time, but add rocks before sand (rocks placed on top of sand can move and crush things). Monitor ammonia, the tank will prob be cycled, but its a good idea to make sure before adding any fish. You can add hardy fish and inverts once ammonia is 0.0

Clean EVERYTHING really well from the FW tank, and make sure to use RODI water to mix salt and topoff tank and not Tap water.

situationlol · Jun 2, 2022

SlugSnorter said:
everything can be added at the same time, but add rocks before sand (rocks placed on top of sand can move and crush things). Monitor ammonia, the tank will prob be cycled, but its a good idea to make sure before adding any fish. You can add hardy fish and inverts once ammonia is 0.0

Clean EVERYTHING really well from the FW tank, and make sure to use RODI water to mix salt and topoff tank and not Tap water.

Thanks for the response. Can you elaborate on why it's problematic to add the sand before the live rock? What's the issue with 'crushing' sand (or whatever you're referring to when you say 'crush things'?). Context: I have 160 lbs of the CaribSea Aragonite (not live) to add to the tank. Somewhat related additional question: what do we think about adding some live sand on top. I have been considering tacking on an order of live sand to my order of live rock from Gulf Live Rock. Do we think this is worth bothering with if I'm already adding 100lbs of live rock? If so, any thoughts about how much is worth adding? Gulf Live Rock offers anywhere from 15lbs to 100 lbs of live sand. (if I ordered live sand I of course probably wouldn't use my entire current supply of 160 lb non live sand.) Cost isn't really an issue, but I of course don't want to waste a couple hundred extra bucks if it's not worth it.

SlugSnorter · Jun 2, 2022

situationlol said:
Thanks for the response. Can you elaborate on why it's problematic to add the sand before the live rock? What's the issue with 'crushing' sand (or whatever you're referring to when you say 'crush things'?). Context: I have 160 lbs of the CaribSea Aragonite (not live) to add to the tank. Somewhat related additional question: what do we think about adding some live sand on top. I have been considering tacking on an order of live sand to my order of live rock from Gulf Live Rock. Do we think this is worth bothering with if I'm already adding 100lbs of live rock? If so, any thoughts about how much is worth adding? Gulf Live Rock offers anywhere from 15lbs to 100 lbs of live sand. (if I ordered live sand I of course probably wouldn't use my entire current supply of 160 lb non live sand.) Cost isn't really an issue, but I of course don't want to waste a couple hundred extra bucks if it's not worth it.

If rocks are placed on sand, when something tries to burrow around or under the rock, it can shift and crush them. If sand is placed after rocks, then the rocks will sit on the glass and be more stable and cannot be burrowed under.

jda · Jun 2, 2022

I would use dry sand - aragonite... not sugar, but not too large... "reef grade" is so subjective, but something like that. The rock can go right in the tank, but it won't likely be cured all the way and can/will have some initial die off (from shipping). If the rock is shipped in water, this can limit initial die off. If it is shipped in newspaper, then I would cure it in a trash can or old tank until it does not stink anymore - outside is a good idea since it can really stink (hollar if you need more help with this). Once you put it in your tank, run your skimmer, some carbon and be prepared to change some water if it starts to have some die off. The critters and bacteria from the rock will seed the sand.

I usually add sand before the rocks, but I do push/shimmy them down to the bottom. Just make sure that they are firm and secure.

Once the rock is cured, the tank might be OK for fish, but it is not fully done with the cycle. The rock will be able to process and handle some fish waste, but the rest of the cycle with oxic and anoxic bacteria in the sand and filters, film algae, etc. still needs to happen which will make the tank more dynamic and able to handle issues, should some arise. You are only able to process fish waste with a fraction of what is to come... just know this... it is kinda a bandaid, but it can work plenty well if you are smart.

There is no guarantee that further dieoff from the rock will not happen. There could be another mini-cycle. This is real and it is more of a risk with real live rock since not 100% of what comes in on it will survive in captivity and some of it will just eventually die. This is not a bad thing since what does survive is wonderful.

Just know that even if your rock can handle some fish load for a while, you still need to wait for most of the rest of the cycle to finish before you go too crazy. The cycle is not truly complete until the deep places of the rock and sand can turn no3 back into nitrogen gas, which can take some time (months to a year), but you don't need this to feel secure that you past worrying about the first two parts of dynamically handing ammonia and nitrite handling. ...so go slow and be smart and you will be OK.

Having live rock will be a great benefit, IMO. It is worth understanding all of the nuance of water vs dry shipped, curing, initial die off vs eventual die off, etc. I can nearly promise that this is easier than diatoms, hair algae and the like.

If you are going to search, "cure" will get you more results for live rock and what you are after. Cycle is more used as the nitrogen cycle, although most don't use it right anyway.

situationlol · Jun 13, 2022

Update: the live rocks arrived 3 days ago. I decided to just add them straight to the new tank (some people I read on here seemed to think that was fine, some not). Salinity is at ~33. Planning on getting to exactly 35 when I do a water change. Somehow my test kit disappeared right as the rocks arrived so I don't have any other parameters for a couple days until my new kit arrives. The question I have is now some of the rocks are turning white/ being covered in a white substance. Pictures below. Anything to be concerned about? Is this just die off? Rocks still smell. The white really appeared in force today, 3 days after adding to tank.

Soren · Jun 13, 2022

situationlol said:
Update: the live rocks arrived 3 days ago. I decided to just add them straight to the new tank (some people I read on here seemed to think that was fine, some not). Salinity is at ~33. Planning on getting to exactly 35 when I do a water change. Somehow my test kit disappeared right as the rocks arrived so I don't have any other parameters for a couple days until my new kit arrives. The question I have is now some of the rocks are turning white/ being covered in a white substance. Pictures below. Anything to be concerned about? Is this just die off? Rocks still smell. The white really appeared in force today, 3 days after adding to tank.

I'm fairly sure the white is due to die-off. This happened on my ocean live rock on about the same schedule: started spreading about 2 days after delivery and introduction into my live rock tank, then faded away in a couple days and has not been back in several weeks. It was a pale sky blue under white lighting, and I think it is bacterial in origin.

One particular place I saw this was on the gorgonians on my live rock where there was dead tissue. Now, I've since added clean-up crew to this tank that are doing a great job keeping the tank and rocks clean.

Big Smelly fish · Jun 13, 2022

I can’t tell with the blue lighting. But sometimes you have sponges and other things die off and a white like blankets will form over the dieoff.

situationlol · Jun 13, 2022

Big Smelly fish said:
I can’t tell with the blue lighting. But sometimes you have sponges and other things die off and a white like blankets will form over the dieoff.

Here's a picture out of the tank and under a regular light. It looks mucasy out of the tank

Soren · Jun 13, 2022

situationlol said:
Here's a picture out of the tank and under a regular light. It looks mucasy out of the tank

That looks identical to what was on my rocks. I'm fairly certain it is bacteria consuming die-off.
Side-note: It is best not to remove live rock from water, as sponges are fairly common on live rock and air exposure can cause them to die.