liveaquaria experience

[davocean]

It does seem like LA has been less up to snuff since about the time they were aquired by petco 3 years ago.
Still though, I don't know anyone doing much better for online orders at the same scale as LA

I agree the fish should be brought back to health w/out too much trouble, but I too would contact LA, I would guess they will probably get you a gift card at the very least if they do not just refund you.

I recently ordered female anthia and got all transitioning to male, they refunded me fully and gave me a $40 gift card, so at least they still do back their sales pretty good usually.

 

[ca1ore]

It does seem like LA has been less up to snuff since about the time they were aquired by petco 3 years ago.

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with anything, particularly since Petco des not own Quality Marine. I wonder, does LA have a set of acceptability standards that QM must meet in a shipped animal; or do they rely on QM to make that judgement? Unless LA does, and they have 'relaxed' them over the last 3 years, hard to see how its meaningful. I think veteran fish keepers would probably say that the overall condition of the reef fish supply chain is in worse shape today than it has ever been.

 

[ca1ore]

I do think that the picture does not truly convey the condition of the fish.

Yes, hard sometimes to get a good picture of a fish. You did the right thing by alerting LA. Trick will be to get it eating in as non-competitive environment as possible; ideally a QT tank where you can feed it as much as it will eat without worry of water quality problems. All my new fish go into QT and I will sometimes feed 10x per day.

 

[davocean]

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with anything, particularly since Petco des not own Quality Marine. I wonder, does LA have a set of acceptability standards that QM must meet in a shipped animal; or do they rely on QM to make that judgement? Unless LA does, and they have 'relaxed' them over the last 3 years, hard to see how its meaningful. I think veteran fish keepers would probably say that the overall condition of the reef fish supply chain is in worse shape today than it has ever been.

It just seems to me this is about the time my experiences w/ them seemed less positive than years prior, and I've noticed a lot of posts similar to this one.

 

[davocean]

Additionally, it's one thing to receive fish in poor health, I mean everything can potentially have disease, this can't always be obvious at collection or at time of transport, and this is what QT is for.

My last experience though, ordering young female anthia and receiving all males, that's just someone dropping the ball.
Not only was I stuck w/ fish I couldn't keep in display, I had to find separate homes for each individual fish since you can only have one male per tank.

I will say they are probably still our best option for online orders, and they still back their sales, it's just been to me a noticeable difference in level of positive experiences and I've noticed things like this a bit more in posts recently.

 

[alton]

I am going to speculate just a little I think QM was holding a bunch of Purple Tangs hoping the price would go back up since the market is flooded with them
Example http://www.nyaquatic.com/purple-tang-zebrasoma-xanthurus-2-3-1/
Michael has had his sale for many months if not over a year now. We all know what happens to tangs in holding tanks with not enough green stuff. Now they are way over stocked and why LA is selling them for half of f there normal price.
It is funny about our hobby and the market place, LA has had Flame Wrasses now for a week at a great price since the price posted includes shipping
https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/319/flame-fairy-wrasse?pcatid=319&c=15+1378+319

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I believe that Petco, Quality Marine, Seagrest Farms, Live Aquaria and Divers Den are owned by the same parent company. So there is that aspect as well. Quality Marine has gone down hill since Phil Shane was running the show. I may be wrong on my assumption but it seems an industry magazine seemed to indicate this relationship within the last couple of years.

 

[shred5]

quality marine or not OP's vendor is LA. LA is responsible for everything we buy through them. QM does not sell to public nor will take credit or return for you. LA is only party responsible so lets keep the blame where it lies. If QM is shipping such sick and bad shaped fish then LA needs to address that to its vendors nor hobbyist.
If you are going to push the blame on QM because OP bought from LA then QM will push the blame down to their wholesaler or divers that catch the fish for them and then the game begins push the blame down the road.

Right on..


what is funny I have had issues every time with their Florida and California facilities but everything from WI has been fine.

 

[User1]

I've had good luck with Live Aquaria. My daughter not so much. I order marine while she orders freshwater. Having said that the time of your post couldn't have been better because like you I also jumped on the purple tang pricing. Unlike you however mine didn't make it and I have already been credited with a refund. I ordered a small purple and similar to what you showed mine looked the same. Thin and something wrong with the fins. The fins on the top edges, and lower, are clear not purple/yellow.

I'm up North just outside Sacramento living near Mather airfield. LA is down in the Southern part of crazy state so this is one reason why I purchase from them. Less time in the cold, heat, or in transient. Nine out of ten times this works. Boxes have no visible sign of damage. Arrived first thing in the morning. I believe by 0930. I had two shipments. Purple tang and a bunch of snails - you will see why in a second. Anyway I had everything all ready for a freshwater dip using Mr. Fenner's Methylene Blue directions minus a QT tank. I know - another story. But..well, no buts. I know. Anyway on to this purple tang. Turned off lighting. Ambient lighting was also off with window blinds closed. Me, purple tang, and my GSD watching. Observe bag. First thing I noticed is that with my previous tang (Lt. Tang) it arrived in a similar bag but it was blacked out 3/4 of the bag. This bag was clear with lower area white. I can see the tang in the middle moving so slightly but no signs of velvet, ich, damage. Float bag to temp about 15 minutes and get ready for bath.

Fresh water bath time, er, no. Fresh water dip of 5 minutes. The bath process freaks me out more than it does the fish so I use the 5 minute process. Grab stop watch, Netrile gloves on, vent bag, scoop out fish, no struggle, place in bucket, start timer, observe. No signs of lift off, no signs of thrashing, no signs of duress. It just swam around ever so slightly like nothing was wrong. Timer kicked off, scoop out fish, placed into styrofoam box with fresh saltwater at 1.020 specific gravity. I tested the water LA had and it was close so I used mine instead of the bag thinking if a parasite or fluke was in there it would be back on it after the bath. Anyway - that was my logic. Using the drip process I monitored and over 2 hours let the salinity match my tank.

About two hours go by and salinity matches the tang is still sort of in the center and slightly swimming. Figured we are good, new pair of gloves, scoop up purple tang, place into display (I know...). It swims ever so slightly, few laps along the tanks wall, and then to the bottom it goes listing on its side. I let it go for a few minutes not doing anything. New pair of gloves on, ladder, scoop it up, and sort of lightly move it left right to get water through the gills. This worked, it seemed fine, but I decided to start acclimation over again so back in the styrofoam box for a bit with tank water to just isolate and watch[Edit: It was already acclimated - I just moved pre-made water matching my tanks to isolate it and observe. I didn't go back to 1.020 and start over - sorry if that wasn't clear in this wall of text]. Stopped leaning, started to swim around more, better all around in another hour moved to the display again and it was doing great. This was on Wednesday. Thursday morning I didn't see it at all so feared the worse. My daughter got home from work and looked at the tank and the purple tang was near the sea swirl just hanging out. It later swam all around the tank but didn't eat any nori even though it passed it. I fed pellets, nothing. Mysis, nothing. Brine, nothing. Not a lot just a small sample in addition to the fishes normal feeding. No one cared he was there, he didn't care about the others. Just not much movement. 30 minutes before lights out I noticed he was swimming slow. 10 minutes later it was on its side, flat, no gill or fin movement. Dead.

I can't say what it was, why it died. I can say no flukes - I checked the bucket after the dip. Usually if the fish makes it through the 5 minute freshwater dip then it is strong enough for the rest of its journey. I've done this process with all my fish. Foxface rabbit, Lt. Tang, Azure damsel, coral beauty. All are plump, active, happy, and eat. This guy the only thing I can think of is that it was weak already, then a fire sale, then shipping, then my freshwater dip, then acclimation, then it was too much and done. Maybe if I had a QT I could have just dumped it in and bypassed the FW dip. Maybe. Probably? Can't second guess now. Ironically enough I posted earlier in the week of a Regal Angel at a store that I saw eating well, plump, healthy, and I passed because I didn't have a proper QT. That same store had a purple tang that was only 78 bucks but didn't look that great. Again, I passed.

Since I've had good luck with LA in the past, images of my current fish below, I figured the sale was worthy and let us try it. The Lt. Tang you see below was maybe 3" at best when I purchased it in May of this year. It is now almost 8" and plump to match in girth. The foxface rabbit was thin, much like the purple tang, but managed the dip fine similar to the Lt. Tang, and eats non stop. It was just this purple tang that I've had bad luck. The 2nd part of this shipment was a lot of snails as you can see by the green on my rock in the images. Emerald crabs made it, snails of various types and sizes made it, not a single loss.

Just the purple tang...

TLR - I like LA and have had good luck. This fire sale with purple tangs? Never again. It was crap. Hope yours makes it while I wait to get a QT in place for the next round in a couple months.

 

[celebrityovernight]

UPDATE:
So this is the email I sent along with a picture of the tang.
"Hello there, I just wanted to share my recent experience with you and hopefully get some help. I ordered one of your purple tangs during the Cyber Monday deal. The fish came in on Wednesday. He was a good size, but I am very disappointed with the condition of the fish. The fish was skinny with a sunken stomach and showing signs of lateral line erosion with scaring. Is this what should be expected when purchasing items that are sold as promotional specials?"

This is the reply I received.
"Thank you for your order. We do apologize for the condition the Purple Tang Arrived in. The Purple Tang may still be stressed from the shipping which may be the reason that it is not eating much right now. We recommend continuing what you are doing and providing plenty of the Nori Seaweed for this specimen.
The warranty on this fish is good until 11/21. Please keep us informed as to the health of this specimen."

Pretty disappointed to say the least.

 

[celebrityovernight]

I've had good luck with Live Aquaria. My daughter not so much. I order marine while she orders freshwater. Having said that the time of your post couldn't have been better because like you I also jumped on the purple tang pricing. Unlike you however mine didn't make it and I have already been credited with a refund. I ordered a small purple and similar to what you showed mine looked the same. Thin and something wrong with the fins. The fins on the top edges, and lower, are clear not purple/yellow.

I'm up North just outside Sacramento living near Mather airfield. LA is down in the Southern part of crazy state so this is one reason why I purchase from them. Less time in the cold, heat, or in transient. Nine out of ten times this works. Boxes have no visible sign of damage. Arrived first thing in the morning. I believe by 0930. I had two shipments. Purple tang and a bunch of snails - you will see why in a second. Anyway I had everything all ready for a freshwater dip using Mr. Fenner's Methylene Blue directions minus a QT tank. I know - another story. But..well, no buts. I know. Anyway on to this purple tang. Turned off lighting. Ambient lighting was also off with window blinds closed. Me, purple tang, and my GSD watching. Observe bag. First thing I noticed is that with my previous tang (Lt. Tang) it arrived in a similar bag but it was blacked out 3/4 of the bag. This bag was clear with lower area white. I can see the tang in the middle moving so slightly but no signs of velvet, ich, damage. Float bag to temp about 15 minutes and get ready for bath.

Fresh water bath time, er, no. Fresh water dip of 5 minutes. The bath process freaks me out more than it does the fish so I use the 5 minute process. Grab stop watch, Netrile gloves on, vent bag, scoop out fish, no struggle, place in bucket, start timer, observe. No signs of lift off, no signs of thrashing, no signs of duress. It just swam around ever so slightly like nothing was wrong. Timer kicked off, scoop out fish, placed into styrofoam box with fresh saltwater at 1.020 specific gravity. I tested the water LA had and it was close so I used mine instead of the bag thinking if a parasite or fluke was in there it would be back on it after the bath. Anyway - that was my logic. Using the drip process I monitored and over 2 hours let the salinity match my tank.

About two hours go by and salinity matches the tang is still sort of in the center and slightly swimming. Figured we are good, new pair of gloves, scoop up purple tang, place into display (I know...). It swims ever so slightly, few laps along the tanks wall, and then to the bottom it goes listing on its side. I let it go for a few minutes not doing anything. New pair of gloves on, ladder, scoop it up, and sort of lightly move it left right to get water through the gills. This worked, it seemed fine, but I decided to start acclimation over again so back in the styrofoam box for a bit with tank water to just isolate and watch. Stopped leaning, started to swim around more, better all around in another hour moved to the display again and it was doing great. This was on Wednesday. Thursday morning I didn't see it at all so feared the worse. My daughter got home from work and looked at the tank and the purple tang was near the sea swirl just hanging out. It later swam all around the tank but didn't eat any nori even though it passed it. I fed pellets, nothing. Mysis, nothing. Brine, nothing. Not a lot just a small sample in addition to the fishes normal feeding. No one cared he was there, he didn't care about the others. Just not much movement. 30 minutes before lights out I noticed he was swimming slow. 10 minutes later it was on its side, flat, no gill or fin movement. Dead.

I can't say what it was, why it died. I can say no flukes - I checked the bucket after the dip. Usually if the fish makes it through the 5 minute freshwater dip then it is strong enough for the rest of its journey. I've done this process with all my fish. Foxface rabbit, Lt. Tang, Azure damsel, coral beauty. All are plump, active, happy, and eat. This guy the only thing I can think of is that it was weak already, then a fire sale, then shipping, then my freshwater dip, then acclimation, then it was too much and done. Maybe if I had a QT I could have just dumped it in and bypassed the FW dip. Maybe. Probably? Can't second guess now. Ironically enough I posted earlier in the week of a Regal Angel at a store that I saw eating well, plump, healthy, and I passed because I didn't have a proper QT. That same store had a purple tang that was only 78 bucks but didn't look that great. Again, I passed.

Since I've had good luck with LA in the past, images of my current fish below, I figured the sale was worthy and let us try it. The Lt. Tang you see below was maybe 3" at best when I purchased it in May of this year. It is now almost 8" and plump to match in girth. The foxface rabbit was thin, much like the purple tang, but managed the dip fine similar to the Lt. Tang, and eats non stop. It was just this purple tang that I've had bad luck. The 2nd part of this shipment was a lot of snails as you can see by the green on my rock in the images. Emerald crabs made it, snails of various types and sizes made it, not a single loss.

Just the purple tang...

TLR - I like LA and have had good luck. This fire sale with purple tangs? Never again. It was crap. Hope yours makes it while I wait to get a QT in place for the next round in a couple months.

I can see yours was in no better condition. Really disappointed they decided to ship that crap out.

 

[User1]

I can see yours was in no better condition. Really disappointed they decided to ship that crap out.

I know, right? However, you very will have a better process in place to manage it with the QT. Could be mine was weak and I should have passed on the dip. Especially seeing how thin it was. Like others have said if yours makes it it will look really nice and be had for a great price.

 

[celebrityovernight]

update: I got another response from LA.

"Thank you for your rely. We sincerely apologize the Purple Tang arrived in poor condition. Your pictured has been forwarded to our Aquaculture Facility for additional assistance and treatment recommendations. We would like to assure you that the specimens were not on sale due to the quality/health of them. This will be forwarded to our vendor for quality control to ensure they check the remaining stock of this specimen. We appreciate that you have brought this to our attention and will get back to you as soon as we have any additional information."

I'm much happier with this response.

 

[User1]

You know - let me send them a email also. I have already sent them one and they refunded me. While that is good I'll just drop them another line and let them know I've been reading a few other purple tang purchases from the sale in similar or worse condition and that there appears to be a pattern.

I don't know how many they sold, shipped, or what so maybe we are in the minority. Or the batch was bad for any of the reasons stated here already and we are just collateral damage. In any case I'll shoot them a message. Can't hurt.

Edit: thanks for the update. How is yours doing?

 

[celebrityovernight]

You know - let me send them a email also. I have already sent them one and they refunded me. While that is good I'll just drop them another line and let them know I've been reading a few other purple tang purchases from the sale in similar or worse condition and that there appears to be a pattern.

I don't know how many they sold, shipped, or what so maybe we are in the minority. Or the batch was bad for any of the reasons stated here already and we are just collateral damage. In any case I'll shoot them a message. Can't hurt.

Edit: thanks for the update. How is yours doing?

I haven't been home today to check on it but so far he is picking at the rocks. He doesn't seem too eager to eat any of the foods I've offered but hopefully today he/she will be better.

 

[ca1ore]

My last experience though, ordering young female anthia and receiving all males, that's just someone dropping the ball.
Not only was I stuck w/ fish I couldn't keep in display, I had to find separate homes for each individual fish since you can only have one male per tank..

Curious, what anthias species? I’ve had female resplendents come as males, and they won’t even let you order female Bartlett’s. I ask because I’m contemplating a few more bimacs and I DEFINATELY don’t want accidental dudes.

 

[davocean]

Curious, what anthias species? I’ve had female resplendents come as males, and they won’t even let you order female Bartlett’s. I ask because I’m contemplating a few more bimacs and I DEFINATELY don’t want accidental dudes.

Lyretails, and each one had a good size spike in place.
I took pics and emailed them and they were quick to recognize the mistake and refund me, mistakes happen I understand, all mostly good as long as they back it, this one just happened to take a little more footwork on my end rehoming males.

 

[jschultzbass]

I LOVE liveaquaria and DFS for that matter but was bummed when they got bought by petco. I will say that I agree that the quality of fish and packaging in their non DD stock (direct from QM) has been a lot lower quality this last year than in years prior. That was very evident to me my last couple orders. I don't know what happened but it is definitely worse. DD stock has been the same for me though as years prior - the best in the business.

 

[ca1ore]

Yeah, that’s not cool. Male lyres are like human teenagers .... not fit for socialization (or maybe it’s just my teens).

 

[davocean]

Yeah, that’s not cool. Male lyres are like human teenagers .... not fit for socialization (or maybe it’s just my teens).

Lol, I think from memory you are kinda over the lyretails, understand.
I've never had bimacs, will be paying attention to those more, but I think they are about same size as lyre's, might be bigger than what I wish to add bioload wise I'm guessing at this point.

I used to do as many others and buy all females and let them work it out, but on my last few tanks I went out of my way to get a good sized male, and much smaller females, and since then I've had no issues w/ having submales pop up that eventually challenge the existing male, seems to be working for me.