I purchased a black snowflake clown from my lfs on Monday, drip acclimated her for about 2 hours and seemed to be just fine the last few days, eating and swimming with no issues. She seemed fine all day today as well but when I checked the tank after lights when out she was swimming on her side so I pulled her out but she died shortly after. checked my water perameters after and everything seems to be in order. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 3, phos 0, pH 8.2, salinity 1.025, temp 78. Other tank inhabitants as far as fish are a leopard wrasse, Midas blenny and yellow watchman goby. Also have a RBTA, cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp and misc coral frags. Tank is a 40g IM aio and is about 2 months old. Here are some before and after pics of the clown. Please let me know what you guys think, I hope my other fish will be ok.
Lost clownfiah
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If your fish are healthy they have a reasonable chance. Lighten up on feeding (feed light to keep the tank clean), don’t add any new fish for at least a few weeks and watch to see if the tank is ready to support new additions. If any others get sick you have been adding fish too fast or they were not healthy to begin with, like the clownfish.
I usually wait 6 weeks after Ive added “a sick one” to keep the disease pressure low in the tank.
Folks who add fish quicker w/o a hospital tank are just gambling with their livestock, imo. Slow additions allow the fish to develop immune systems over time.
Not everyone runs their tanks this way, a hospital tank is also a good way to go to prevent tank wipe outs until you learn how to select vigorous specimens. Try to find local hobbiests who have fish for Sale from healthy (disease free) tanks. Those fish are worth more than what you got from your lfs, imo.
I can’t say for certain how your other fish will do but I’m sure others will chime in to help you going forward. Gl
I usually wait 6 weeks after Ive added “a sick one” to keep the disease pressure low in the tank.
Folks who add fish quicker w/o a hospital tank are just gambling with their livestock, imo. Slow additions allow the fish to develop immune systems over time.
Not everyone runs their tanks this way, a hospital tank is also a good way to go to prevent tank wipe outs until you learn how to select vigorous specimens. Try to find local hobbiests who have fish for Sale from healthy (disease free) tanks. Those fish are worth more than what you got from your lfs, imo.
I can’t say for certain how your other fish will do but I’m sure others will chime in to help you going forward. Gl
HotRocks
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I agree that is Uronema.
Uronema is a parasite with a direct life cycle and once it's in your tank it's there to stay. It can not be removed by going fallow, it would require a complete breakdown and sterilization of the tank to erradicate.
Uronema can afflict any fish.
Most fish are generally not affected by it. If you avoid any damsel/chromis as well as anthias it may not be a problem in the future. It really depends on the overall health of your fish. I have seen it on Wrasse as well.
Uronema is a parasite with a direct life cycle and once it's in your tank it's there to stay. It can not be removed by going fallow, it would require a complete breakdown and sterilization of the tank to erradicate.
Uronema can afflict any fish.
Most fish are generally not affected by it. If you avoid any damsel/chromis as well as anthias it may not be a problem in the future. It really depends on the overall health of your fish. I have seen it on Wrasse as well.
That does look like Uronema and unfortunately if it is your other fish are not necesssarily safe as this is a direct life cycle parasite that does not require a host to survive.
The question is were these sores present while the fish was still alive? Or are these from a CUC?
The only true way to eradicate Uronema is a complete tear down and bleaching of everything wet.
Also typically with Uronema once a fish displays a sore it is already too far gone to save.
The question is were these sores present while the fish was still alive? Or are these from a CUC?
The only true way to eradicate Uronema is a complete tear down and bleaching of everything wet.
Also typically with Uronema once a fish displays a sore it is already too far gone to save.
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I'm curious about this also, the first picture looks more like the start of brook... but those post-mortem photos definitely look like uronema.
That’s what I was thinking
The sores were not from CUC I pulled her out before she died so nothing had a chance to get to her. I will keep feedings low and monitor my other fish for any signs. Is there anything else I can do? If it is uronema it sounds like I pretty much need to start over to fully get rid of it? If I don't see any signs am I safe to add more clowns in the future? Not good news for me that's for sure, I'm going to contact my lfs and see what they say. They are pretty reputable and thier live stock and tanks always look amazing.
I had Uronema in a couple of wrasses and I contacted my favorite LFS and they were in complete denial. The problem is most LFS run meds at sub therapeutic levels to keep these parasites from taking over, Then you bring the fish home and place it in non medicated water and it is taken over. I was fortunate that mine developed Uronema in QT so that was an easy clean up.
Any remaining fish if you want to be sure should go to QT and be treated with double dose of metro for 14 days. This really is a crap shoot you could in theory never see it again with your remaining fish but when you add a new fish it could show its head again. Unfortunately yes the only way to eradicate Uronema completely from your DT is a complete tear down, sterilization, and start over (including live rock). Hopefully from here forward you will utilize a QT to avoid these problems in the future.
Here is a write up on Uronema
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
One thing I’ll share is that copper does virtually nothing for uronema. We’ve had it take hold even in fully therapeutic copper. Metroplex was how we treated it. I agree with the diagnosis, by the way.
I didn’t used to take this disease seriously because it seemed to only impact chromis, some anthias, angels, and some butterflies. But now more angels (especially dwarf), many other fish including wrasse are getting it.
I’ve never worried about it in my tank because my fish were healthy enough it didn’t cause an issue. What I don’t know is if it’s somehow more virulent now or if the overall condition of the fish we receive these days is less and thus it takes hold. Or both, perhaps.
So I don’t know how I feel. I still suspect that after quarantine and treatment, a fat, healthy fish added to a display tank that “once had” (still does almost certainly) uronema may be fine. But chromis are probably still a large risk, followed by anthias, some butterflies, and dwarf angels (in that order).
The only thing I’ve not seen uronema seem to harm recently was tangs. They seemed unaffected as everyone dropped dead before we figured out what was going on. Once you see uronema and diagnose it on a fish it’s almost always too late for that fish.
I can’t stress enough how important treating and proper quarantine procedures are these days. I can’t speak to exactly why but disease is rampant and fish health seems considerably worse than it was a few years ago, and even ten years ago for certain.
So your options are to nuke everything with bleach and start over, or hope that healthy fish won’t be affected going forward. Both require quarantining from here out for best results.
Good luck, sorry for your loss
If I do have to tear down are my corals safe to keep if I rehome them for a month or so while the tank cycles again? And same with my current fish? Or is everything lost? What is the best way to set up a QT? I've never done it before plus I don't have a ton of space to put one.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Uronema can “live” anywhere. You can try good rinsing of the actual corals themselves in clean fresh saltwater but it could still harbor uronema. Maybe you’d be fine, maybe not. Unlike other parasites common in the hobby uronema cannot be starved out without a host.
The fish can all be treated with metroplex and copper concurrently to cover a broad range of things (including uronema and brook).
This is what we advocate here, we will he revising this to mostly sub spectrogram for metroplex (although you can do both with good oxygenation). In this case you’ll need to do metroplex to treat uronema and possibly brook, anyway.
Feeding metroplex and focus (binds meds to the food) in foods for 14 days will treat internal uronema as well. I usually advocate General Cure instead because it contains metroplex and Prazi which covers other internal ailments as well.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/
The fish can all be treated with metroplex and copper concurrently to cover a broad range of things (including uronema and brook).
This is what we advocate here, we will he revising this to mostly sub spectrogram for metroplex (although you can do both with good oxygenation). In this case you’ll need to do metroplex to treat uronema and possibly brook, anyway.
Feeding metroplex and focus (binds meds to the food) in foods for 14 days will treat internal uronema as well. I usually advocate General Cure instead because it contains metroplex and Prazi which covers other internal ailments as well.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/
Thanks guys for all the feedback, not really sure where I should go from here. Very disheartening. If I do a tank wipe I suppose I just have to throw the corals in the trash then? I'm not sure I have the heart to do that. What would you guys do in my shoes? Like I said I'm pretty new to the hobby and my tank is only a few months old but am pretty attached to what I have. But I aslo wants what's best for my tank.
If it were me I think I would set up 4-5 buckets of fresh saltwater and start doing tank transfer method on your coral, except maybe every 4-5 hours to span 24 hours or so and with a good rinse in between buckets also. I think by the end I would hope your coral would be Uronema free.
@4FordFamily thoughts?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-other-way-to-run-a-reef-tank-no-quarantine.534274/
Check out @Paul B ‘s method. You can keep your stuff and move forward and it can/ may all survive. Do nothing now except normal tank maintenance and see where this goes in the next few weeks. If things go worse, restart makes sense, if it stays ok, use Paul’s advice & method. It works but requires patiences and skilled care & acquisition of future tank inhabitants.
Sorry about the clown, good luck moving forward. You can do this!
Check out @Paul B ‘s method. You can keep your stuff and move forward and it can/ may all survive. Do nothing now except normal tank maintenance and see where this goes in the next few weeks. If things go worse, restart makes sense, if it stays ok, use Paul’s advice & method. It works but requires patiences and skilled care & acquisition of future tank inhabitants.
Sorry about the clown, good luck moving forward. You can do this!
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
To be honest I don't know, I would think it would improve the odds of it being clean, but how much, I am honestly unsure. I've never studied uronema deeply, my knowledge of it is primarily "reactionary". In other words, how to handle it once we've already got it or how to prevent it.
As I said, I didn't take uronema seriously until about 6 months ago, personally.
I think you have a correct diagnosis of Uronema, 4Fordfamily has dealt with this a lot and I absolutely trust his opinion and experience. It’s up to you to decide which way you want to go with it.
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