Lost my DaVinci clown...Why?

[RobberyinCSharp1824]

My DaVinci Clownish just died unexpectedly after having him for about 4 months now in an established 120g tank. He was the sole resident of that tank (aside from turbo snails) while my sailfin tang and anthias are in QT (didn't want to create a bioburden surge in my DT). I had posted a few weeks back about a strange "gash" near his nose area (video below). He'd been through a full 30-day QT with 14 days of therapeutic copper, and had been in my DT for about 3 months without any issues besides being a finicky eater. Once this mark appeared (and was clearly not getting better after about a week), I started feeding him food soaked with medication (General Cure + Focus + Brine Shrimp + Garlic). It didn't help, but it didn't seem to hurt, either. While his skin did NOT appear to be "sloughing off" like brook is known to do, another smaller gash showed up on the other side of his nose area. This was probably around the 2nd week his face appeared strange.
I ordered Ruby Reef Rally Pro immediately. By the time it showed up, my clown was extremely lethargic, had more labored breathing, and was completely refusing food (med-soaked or otherwise), and stopped swimming around the tank. I managed to grab him, give him a DI water bath (no flakes came off during his bath), and then gave him a Reef Rally bath (container was aerated 30min prior to treatment and aerator remained on through the entire duration of the bath). He did just fine at first, but showed signs of distress around 1 hour so I took him out and moved him to QT that I also ran with continuous aeration. By the time I removed him from the bath, he was struggling to stay upright (photo below). A few hours later, he passed.

Tank parameters are as follows. I have no idea what I've done wrong here. Sump's filter socks are running carbon and phosban. He was QT'ed without an issue. The only thing that I could think of is I added snails a few weeks back.
Salinity: 1.022
Phosphate: 0.12ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
dKh: 7.84
pH: 8.0
Temp: 73*F

Any ideas on why I lost him or what this could be?

 

[K7BMG]

I would have suspect hole in the head.
General Cure internally taken through feedings may not have been enough.

I think you were on the right track just implemented the medication incorectly.

 

[esther]

Temp & salinity seem a little on the low side. Sorry you lost your clown.

 

[RobberyinCSharp1824]

I would have suspect hole in the head.
General Cure internally taken through feedings may not have been enough.

I think you were on the right track just implemented the medication incorectly.

I suspected HLLE too - but I read somewhere that clownfish are almost immune to this unless water parameters are poor? Do you know if this is true? I know my temp/salinity are low (as Esther mentioned) but I didn't think my parameters were so severely out of range that it would trigger HLLE. I even did a 20% water change as a precaution on Week 1 but it didn't improve.

I thought about soaking him in a QT with General Cure but was worried that this would stress him more. Clearly that was not the case.

Temp & salinity seem a little on the low side. Sorry you lost your clown.

Thanks. I'm going to try to raise the temp up a bit but I'm dealing with an algae outbreak and was concerned it would exacerbate the issue. I've been struggling to keep my salinity high enough, but that's a different issue related to my return pump and ATO (Tunze). Do you think that those could've triggered this?

 

[K7BMG]

Yes I agree as well with the salinity.
The temp is way to low at 73, I misread it the first reed thought is was 78

 

[K7BMG]

I dont know about triggering it but did not help the situation.

To my LIMITED knowledge HLLE is specific to Tangs only.
Poor and incorect nutrition and carbon are the main reasons for HLLE.

To my knowledge and research I have never heard of low temperatures to help control algae.
Reduced lighting for sure, even blackout periods will and can help.

Without meaning to be insulting to you or the ones your getting information from I think that there is some bad information getting to you or maybe your not comprehending the information properly.

I have not looked in a while but the instructions for General cure to cure internal parasites should be put in the food.
For other things like Hole in the Head it should be added to the water.

Sorry I truly mean no insult here and just want to help you.

 

[esther]

I suspected HLLE too - but I read somewhere that clownfish are almost immune to this unless water parameters are poor? Do you know if this is true? I know my temp/salinity are low (as Esther mentioned) but I didn't think my parameters were so severely out of range that it would trigger HLLE. I even did a 20% water change as a precaution on Week 1 but it didn't improve.

I thought about soaking him in a QT with General Cure but was worried that this would stress him more. Clearly that was not the case.



Thanks. I'm going to try to raise the temp up a bit but I'm dealing with an algae outbreak and was concerned it would exacerbate the issue. I've been struggling to keep my salinity high enough, but that's a different issue related to my return pump and ATO (Tunze). Do you think that those could've triggered this?

Yes, as you replace water from your ATO it will reduce salinity. You need to make sure that you replace the salinity when you do water changes. We actually have salt water in our ATO at a low salinity so when it’s added to the tank it keeps it consistent.

 

[RobberyinCSharp1824]

I dont know about triggering it but did not help the situation.

To my LIMITED knowledge HLLE is specific to Tangs only.
Poor and incorect nutrition and carbon are the main reasons for HLLE.

To my knowledge and research I have never heard of low temperatures to help control algae.
Reduced lighting for sure, even blackout periods will and can help.

Without meaning to be insulting to you or the ones your getting information from I think that there is some bad information getting to you or maybe your not comprehending the information properly.

I have not looked in a while but the instructions for General cure to cure internal parasites should be put in the food.
For other things like Hole in the Head it should be added to the water.

Sorry I truly mean no insult here and just want to help you.

You're not being insulting so no offense taken. The info I got on HLLE was from R2R here, and it aligns with that you've stated. Because I wasn't entirely sure about what the disease was, that HLLE was specific to tangs, and ich/velvet should've been mitigated during his QT, I suspected internal parasites - hence feeding with food-soaked medication rather than adding GC to a QT. Based on the feedback I am getting from the group, it sounds like this was more of a water-parameter issue and would have been the correct course of action to treat him.

 

[RobberyinCSharp1824]

Yes, as you replace water from your ATO it will reduce salinity. You need to make sure that you replace the salinity when you do water changes. We actually have salt water in our ATO at a low salinity so when it’s added to the tank it keeps it consistent.

So this is good to know - My understanding was that evaporation of water causes a spike in salinity (since it's only water evaporating) and that ATO of DI water mitigates this to maintain stable salinity levels since it compensates for lost H2O.

1. What salinity do you keep your ATO tank at?
2. Do you have concerns that this will have a negative impact on the return pump? It's submersible so it shouldn't but I'd rather ask than assume.

 

[esther]

So this is good to know - My understanding was that evaporation of water causes a spike in salinity (since it's only water evaporating) and that ATO of DI water mitigates this to maintain stable salinity levels since it compensates for lost H2O.

1. What salinity do you keep your ATO tank at?
2. Do you have concerns that this will have a negative impact on the return pump? It's submersible so it shouldn't but I'd rather ask than assume.

I’ve kept it at about 1.010. I don’t have any concern about the ATO pump. It’s well made and inexpensive to replace.

 

[K7BMG]

Agree the pump wont be an issue.
But you dont want it on the bottom of the reservoir as well.
Keep it at least one inch off the bottom, it is less likley to suck up undissolveed solids that can shorten the pump life or clog the tubes.
This is standard practice for any pump in any solution.

 

[SMSREEF]

So this is good to know - My understanding was that evaporation of water causes a spike in salinity (since it's only water evaporating) and that ATO of DI water mitigates this to maintain stable salinity levels since it compensates for lost H2O.

1. What salinity do you keep your ATO tank at?
2. Do you have concerns that this will have a negative impact on the return pump? It's submersible so it shouldn't but I'd rather ask than assume.

Wait please, don’t add salt to your ATO yet.

I don’t understand putting salt in ATO water.
what evaporates from tank is purewater only, not salt.

I have never added saltwater to tank unless doing a water change, or if salinity was too low.

 

[esther]

Wait please, don’t add salt to your ATO yet.

I don’t understand putting salt in ATO water.
what evaporates from tank is purewater only, not salt.

I have never added saltwater to tank unless doing a water change, or if salinity was too low.

All tanks are different. Everyone needs to figure out what works for their system. We lose salinity to salt creep, etc, so we’ve found a way to stabilize our tank at 1.026 and it works for us.