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LPS "RTN'ing"
- Thread starter holdyourlight
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How old is the system/tank? The number one thing is stability, and you definitely had a major alk swing. You need to find out what caused the sudden 3dkh drop, and make sure it does not happen again.
Like stated before, it is not the photoperiod of bulbs, but the intensity that hurts more. So next time, either raise the light fixture substantially, or use screens.
Here is the best bet for lights and I think should be done by many people(although I have not done it yet, if I ever get the money I will). Buy a PAR meter. Test the PAR on your lights before you replace them. Then raise your light fixture or add enough screens to match that same PAR level with new bulbs. Slowly lower yor fixture or remove a screen every week and keep checking PAR levels. That way you can SLOWLY acclimate the corals to new PAR levels. Over the course of 6 to 8 weeks, you should be able to run them at normal height or without screens.
Like stated before, it is not the photoperiod of bulbs, but the intensity that hurts more. So next time, either raise the light fixture substantially, or use screens.
Here is the best bet for lights and I think should be done by many people(although I have not done it yet, if I ever get the money I will). Buy a PAR meter. Test the PAR on your lights before you replace them. Then raise your light fixture or add enough screens to match that same PAR level with new bulbs. Slowly lower yor fixture or remove a screen every week and keep checking PAR levels. That way you can SLOWLY acclimate the corals to new PAR levels. Over the course of 6 to 8 weeks, you should be able to run them at normal height or without screens.
As a part of regular testing there really is no reason to test ammonia and especially not nitrite. In fact after a cycle there is virtually no reason to test nitrite in a marine aquarium since it's not very toxic to the animals we keep and is quickly and easily broken down before it ever gets near those levels. I would also contend that hobby grade phosphate kits are nearly useless. Lastly, magnesium and calcium deplete fairly slowly and once you know your basic depletion retaes they should need to be test any more often than evert month or more.
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Sikryd
hmm...Sweet!
Someone wrote in here what I was thinking.
Just because a coral dies/rtn's overnight, doesn't mean it wasn't on its way out for a week or two. It usually takes a bit for them to die.
My best guesses are that your alk combined with the intensity of the new light TOGETHER weakened and killed them.
For what it is worth I would NEVER under any circumstances change all the bulbs at once. You can test with a par meter to see the difference if you have access to one. Test it now, then put all your old bulbs back in. I bet the difference is in the 2-300 par range. That combined with an alk swing will definitely cause some issues.
At least I think so, so take it for whats its worth ;) lol
I know what you mean. I can deal with things dying, if I know WHY! I lost about $5k in SPS 2 months ago, all due to a $30 heater :(
Sometimes this hobby sucks!
Just because a coral dies/rtn's overnight, doesn't mean it wasn't on its way out for a week or two. It usually takes a bit for them to die.
My best guesses are that your alk combined with the intensity of the new light TOGETHER weakened and killed them.
For what it is worth I would NEVER under any circumstances change all the bulbs at once. You can test with a par meter to see the difference if you have access to one. Test it now, then put all your old bulbs back in. I bet the difference is in the 2-300 par range. That combined with an alk swing will definitely cause some issues.
At least I think so, so take it for whats its worth ;) lol
I know what you mean. I can deal with things dying, if I know WHY! I lost about $5k in SPS 2 months ago, all due to a $30 heater :(
Sometimes this hobby sucks!
Supreme Reefs
Zoa Crazy!
Would an iodine dip work as well?
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Supreme Reefs
Zoa Crazy!
Mike, i was in the same boat my alk was at 6, LPS frags started to recede then i finally raised my alk to almost 9 and everything looks better fluffed up and everything. Although just a few frags at still receding a little bit or doesnt look any better. Didnt find any bugs or anything on them but then you never know... so i would agree on the dip with intercepter.
Supreme Reefs
Zoa Crazy!
OP
OP
thanks for the responses everyone, i am too tired and frustrated to address everything now but i think you guys pretty much nailed it with the lights and alk combo, i am also going to dose interceptor as a preventative measure
i'll come back in the morning with more thoughts and a new thread about my main tank going down for a while due to this and some bad LR i got :(
i'll come back in the morning with more thoughts and a new thread about my main tank going down for a while due to this and some bad LR i got :(
Supreme Reefs
Zoa Crazy!
When you say "dose" do you mean straight to your tank?
OP
OP
yup, from the little i went and read you treat the whole tank.........
?
?
Supreme Reefs
Zoa Crazy!
I heard from a local reefer that uses it, it will kill all your inverts hermit crabs, snails, cleaner shrimp ect.... if you dose your whole system. I would see why since it kills those little bugs. Just wanted throw that out there just in case you have those inverts in your system. I guess the other method just take out the frags and dip them...
minirex4777
Community Member
first off phosban and activated carbon will pull down your alk and ph if over used and alk needs to watched and supplemented it can be lowered and removed by skimming and the already mentioned chemical filtration.you cutting your light cycle down did nothing to help with the new bulb except create additional stress.you can not change photoperiod by three hours in on day without stress. a half an hour a day in either direction max.All you should have done is raised them so the intensity was the same at first and then slowly droped them. im sure youve heard nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.ITS TRUE!and as far as those corals dieng over night i doubt that is what really occured although it appeared that way .had you picked them up over the previos week and looked you might have seen damage that was missed from afar.good luck and take it slow and steady or just freak out whatever is best for you.Ron
Hey Mike, I know you must be pretty bummed right about now. I just recently finished losing a BEAUTIFUL blasto colony when I changed my powerheads to an MP20. Even though I adjusted the flow rate to match that of my previous powerheads, I never stood a change. Lesson learned: take things SLOWLY. The word on the street is that your an excellent reefer, PLEASE don't give up. Take a deep breath and perhaps experiment with cheap LPS before braking down your tank. I find pleasure in all aspects of this hobby, including meeting new people, doing research, and scouting for new corals. Unfortunately at times, this hobby does come with some bumps and bruises. Every time I feel like quitting I always take a moment to remember how I felt when I got my very first chalice. Lesson learned: I'm not a quitter (and neither are you!).
Now for my $.002
-I'm not sure I entirely agree with the lights/alk theory of being the dominate cause for losing the LPS. The corals would have indicated some type of stress/bleaching factor that would have clearly been visible simply by observing the tank. Losing multiple colonies exactly two weeks later on the button just seems odd.
Mike, your an excellent reefer and I'm sure your guess is as good as mine. This is where you battle for success continues. I believe in you, PLEASE don't give up....remember the excitement when you got your first coral?
GOOD LUCK,
Jovany
Now for my $.002
-I'm not sure I entirely agree with the lights/alk theory of being the dominate cause for losing the LPS. The corals would have indicated some type of stress/bleaching factor that would have clearly been visible simply by observing the tank. Losing multiple colonies exactly two weeks later on the button just seems odd.
Mike, your an excellent reefer and I'm sure your guess is as good as mine. This is where you battle for success continues. I believe in you, PLEASE don't give up....remember the excitement when you got your first coral?
GOOD LUCK,
Jovany
Weird!
If it was low alk or lighting stress, even both, I still don't think you would see what you described happen.
The challices would be the first to bleach, then recede. Favias would bleach, but probably not have tissue recession right away. Acans would close up, maybe bleach, but not recede or RTN.
Mass coral die off of many different species when all parameters are good is usually some toxin poisoning the tank. It doesn't necessarily have to be man made or introduced, once I had all my acros die from a sinularia dying. It only affected the acropora, no other genera.
Maybe i missed this, but is the frag tank plumbed to the main tank? Or separate? When you say they RTN, did you see brown jelly on everything?
If it was low alk or lighting stress, even both, I still don't think you would see what you described happen.
The challices would be the first to bleach, then recede. Favias would bleach, but probably not have tissue recession right away. Acans would close up, maybe bleach, but not recede or RTN.
Mass coral die off of many different species when all parameters are good is usually some toxin poisoning the tank. It doesn't necessarily have to be man made or introduced, once I had all my acros die from a sinularia dying. It only affected the acropora, no other genera.
Maybe i missed this, but is the frag tank plumbed to the main tank? Or separate? When you say they RTN, did you see brown jelly on everything?
OP
OP
theres WAY to many frags i would have to dose the whole tank and theres just a few peppermint shrimp in there so i'm not too worried!
OP
OP
thanks for the encouragement!! i'm not going to quit just may take that particular tank down.......i agree with you there should have been some indication before they melted overnight, still stumped
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