Majestics (nearly) a pair

Haydn · Aug 27, 2020

I just thought I would update this project- I think they have bonded;Joyful

I have a PAIR of Majestic Angelfish. Now to try to spawn them.

lion king · Aug 27, 2020

Haydn said:
I just thought I would update this project- I think they have bonded;Joyful I have a PAIR of Majestic Angelfish. Now to try to spawn them.

Do you see them hanging together, like attached at the hip, really most of the time. There really is a difference between a bonded pair and a male and female sharing the same tank. A bonded pair is literally hanging together almost all the time. I've had bonded pairs of bluejaw triggers and a male and a female sharing the same tank; there is a difference.

Haydn · Aug 27, 2020

lion king said:
Do you see them hanging together, like attached at the hip, really most of the time. There really is a difference between a bonded pair and a male and female sharing the same tank. A bonded pair is literally hanging together almost all the time. I've had bonded pairs of bluejaw triggers and a male and a female sharing the same tank; there is a difference.

I had a male and a female sharing the same tank for a while as you can see from video in my first post, there was little interaction between them (but at least they tolerated each other and didn't fight). Now my angelfish are not only interacting, they are actively seeking each other out, greeting each other and swimming together. Hopefully the bond will get stronger.

Haydn · Sep 18, 2020

The pair are getting more comfortable with each other I was able to get a couple of close-ups as @ThRoewer has noticed and hopefully I am confirming, the operculum spine seems to be an indicator of sex. The male has a more elongated body shape and a larger and more robust spine.

Male

Blow-up of the head area

Female

Blow-up of the head area

You can see a clear difference in body shape, spine size.

ThRoewer · Sep 18, 2020

The spine is definitely the safest indicator of sex.
A good while ago I came across a research paper that found that Pomacanthus sexstriatus is gonochoristic and does not changes sex, at least not once mature. I would think this applies at a minimum to all the Euxiphipops complex species which are P. navarchus and P. xanthometopon. But it may also be the case for other members of the genus Pomacanthus and beyond.
Based on my experiences with them I'm actually thinking this also applies to Pygoplites (which is technically a basal line of the genus Holacanthus which has several members who are confirmed to be hermaphrodites).

Haydn · Sep 19, 2020

ThRoewer said:
The spine is definitely the safest indicator of sex.
A good while ago I came across a research paper that found that Pomacanthus sexstriatus is gonochoristic and does not changes sex, at least not once mature. I would think this applies at a minimum to all the Euxiphipops complex species which are P. navarchus and P. xanthometopon. But it may also be the case for other members of the genus Pomacanthus and beyond.
Based on my experiences with them I'm actually thinking this also applies to Pygoplites (which is technically a basal line of the genus Holacanthus which has several members who are confirmed to be hermaphrodites).

The spine 'rule' also seems to hold with Centropyge (or at least the ones I have kept) one member as it matures dominates and grows a substantial operculum spine..

I have paired Regal Angelfish on 4 occasions, I find them the easiest and most tolerant of the 'large' species to pair, and the male always grows the extended spine. One one occasion I had a 'proven' female (it had been paired with a male which died) I added a small fish as a replacement (with all the necessary safeguards), over approximately 6 months the existing one became the male.

If you can find the research paper I would be interested in the link.

ThRoewer · Sep 20, 2020

Haydn said:
The spine 'rule' also seems to hold with Centropyge (or at least the ones I have kept) one member as it matures dominates and grows a substantial operculum spine..

I have paired Regal Angelfish on 4 occasions, I find them the easiest and most tolerant of the 'large' species to pair, and the male always grows the extended spine. One one occasion I had a 'proven' female (it had been paired with a male which died) I added a small fish as a replacement (with all the necessary safeguards), over approximately 6 months the existing one became the male.

If you can find the research paper I would be interested in the link.

A proven female would only be one that had spawned and released eggs. I have seen with my Gramma (and found this confirmed in a research paper) that males may disguise themselves as females to avoid being attacked by the dominant male.

I had a number of Regal "pairs" in the past, both, Indo (yellow chest) and Pacific (blue/gray chest), where both seemed to be females and none of them became a male.
And my current Maldives male, which I raised from a baby, developed all the male attributes and behavior before I added the female. Normally, to change from female to male, hermaphrodites need a social stimulant. This and my previous experience makes me think that there is a possibility they may not change sex.

This is the research that found P. sexstriatus to be gonochoric: https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/1280/

SDguy · Sep 20, 2020

lion king said:
As far as bonding pairs, with fish like angels it just a matter of the luck of the draw. If you can't definitively sex them and you get 2 males, they will likely never bond, and may actually become more aggressive towards each other as they mature. They are not like wrasses and clowns where they change sexes giving way to the more dominant. Angels are born either male or female and stay the same. This goes for many fish, when you get lucky and get a male/female pair of species you can definitively sex, it works; if you get 2 males you usually end up in trouble.

While not true for angels, this is actually true for butterflies though...