Majorly high phosphate and nitrate

[Aparker2005]

Did some testing today after just getting back into really taking care of our 125. Api tests. Phosphate I think is honestly showing around 10 ppm.

I went a few months with being disheartened by losing corals, and everything costing so much. Stopped doing weekly or bi-weekly water changes for a while, and stopped testing.

Wife and I are both fully back into it now. I've been doing bi weekly water changes since November or December at around 15-20%.

Todays numbers are pictured. What in the world do I do? I feed fairly heavily, so I figure that's where a lot of my issues are coming from. Flakes/pellets/frozen 2-3x a day plus a bit of nori for the tangs and foxface/angels.

Would adding chemi pure back to the hobs, and eventually a skimmer help some?

Thanks!

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

First I would suggest to get proper test kits, API is useless for phosphate. Its ok for nitrate, but I would not make any changes to phosphate based on API.

If regular water changes are not bringing down the numbers, then I would think there is an imballance between the bioload and the filtration, its all about import vs export. A skimmer would surely help, but otherwise we don't have any info on what type of filtration you are running.

 

[Troylee]

^^^this! Hob scares me right away.. what do you have for filtration on this system? Pellets seem to add lots of p04 in my experience! Get some Hannah checkers for nitrate and phosphate and report back.

 

[Aparker2005]

First I would suggest to get proper test kits, API is useless for phosphate. Its ok for nitrate, but I would not make any changes to phosphate based on API.

If regular water changes are not bringing down the numbers, then I would think there is an imballance between the bioload and the filtration, its all about import vs export. A skimmer would surely help, but otherwise we don't have any info on what type of filtration you are running.

Filtration is 2 Seachem Tidal 110s and 1 tidal 55. Each filled with the stock mechanical blue mesh, 1 filter pad cut to lay on the blue mesh, and then filled with ceramic rings and Seachem matrix.

Lots of live rock in the tank.

 

[Aparker2005]

^^^this! Hob scares me right away.. what do you have for filtration on this system? Pellets seem to add lots of p04 in my experience! Get some Hannah checkers for nitrate and phosphate and report back.

I actually have the Hanna testers for nitrate and phosphate, I just hate using them because they're such a hassle. But, it would give more accurate results probably.

I did a nitrate test Saturday and it gave me a reading of 3.87 on the LR nitrate reading. That seems way off from the api obviously.

 

[Troylee]

You need to lose those hob filters and get a skimmer.. even a canister would do ya better! Those are not effective for your tank. It sounds like a big bioload with angels and tangs.

 

[Troylee]

I actually have the Hanna testers for nitrate and phosphate, I just hate using them because they're such a hassle. But, it would give more accurate results probably.

I did a nitrate test Saturday and it gave me a reading of 3.87 on the LR nitrate reading. That seems way off from the api obviously.

The low range checkers suck! Get the high range it’s super simple to use.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Filtration is 2 Seachem Tidal 110s and 1 tidal 55. Each filled with the stock mechanical blue mesh, 1 filter pad cut to lay on the blue mesh, and then filled with ceramic rings and Seachem matrix.

Lots of live rock in the tank.

So you have a lot of mechanical filtration which doesn't really do anything to export the nutrients, it just holds them until you change the filter pad and clean the filter..... there are other ways to reduce the nutrients, such as refugiums, carbon dosing, water changes, protein skimmer, etc... All of these export the nutrients from the system.

 

[Aparker2005]

You need to lose those hob filters and get a skimmer.. even a canister would do ya better! Those are not effective for your tank. It sounds like a big bioload with angels and tangs.

I do have a FX6 and FX4 from my freshwater days, but everyone has made me think my reef will completely die if we switched to those. Nitrate factory is all I hear about canisters. I'd love to use the FX's if they wouldn't be bad.

I honestly hate the hobs. I do plan in getting a skimmer in the next few days.

 

[Aparker2005]

So you have a lot of mechanical filtration which doesn't really do anything to export the nutrients, it just holds them until you change the filter pad and clean the filter..... there are other ways to reduce the nutrients, such as refugiums, carbon dosing, water changes, protein skimmer, etc... All of these export the nutrients from the system.

The ceramic rings and matrix don't really help?

And yeah I have started back bi-weekly water changes of about 15-20%. It's obviously not enough though with these readings (if they're accurate).

Fish are all doing just fine. Most of the corals that survived are okay. The thing that surprises me most is how well our BTA are doing. They've even split and seem extremely healthy. Urchins are also growing and not seeming to be affected by the high numbers.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

The ceramic rings and matrix don't really help?

And yeah I have started back bi-weekly water changes of about 15-20%. It's obviously not enough though with these readings (if they're accurate).

Fish are all doing just fine. Most of the corals that survived are okay. The thing that surprises me most is how well our BTA are doing. They've even split and seem extremely healthy. Urchins are also growing and not seeming to be affected by the high numbers.

ceramic rings hold bacteria, providing biofiltration, but it does not export nutrients. I'm not familiar with matrix

Hey if the corals and fish are happy then there is no concern, I never suggested you needed to lower nutrients, I was just answering your questions lol. There have been some folks on this forum that have mentioned they run higher nutrients than you, so its not abnormal. Good luck

 

[Aparker2005]

ceramic rings hold bacteria, providing biofiltration, but it does not export nutrients. I'm not familiar with matrix

Hey if the corals and fish are happy then there is no concern, I never suggested you needed to lower nutrients, I was just answering your questions lol. There have been some folks on this forum that have mentioned they run higher nutrients than you, so its not abnormal. Good luck

Gotcha, I just see most people's numbers way below these and got nervous.

Added a Duncan 2 months ago and it never opened once. Had Duncan's grow 20 or 30 heads before so I was concerned. Lost all of our euphylia and most all of our sps as well.

Really debating the canisters but feel like that may just be doing the same thing as the hobs? Unless there's some better bio media I could add to them and clean them when needed?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Really debating the canisters but feel like that may just be doing the same thing as the hobs? Unless there's some better bio media I could add to them and clean them when needed?

That really comes down to personal preference, personally for me I'm not a fan of canisters. I use a hob filter sometimes on my tanks when I want to run activated carbon, to me, thats really its best benefit. Personally for me I always prefer a skimmer, you can see and smell the difference it makes to your tank. IMO a skimmer plus a hob filter provides good overall filtration.

 

[Aparker2005]

That really comes down to personal preference, personally for me I'm not a fan of canisters. I use a hob filter sometimes on my tanks when I want to run activated carbon, to me, thats really its best benefit. Personally for me I always prefer a skimmer, you can see and smell the difference it makes to your tank. IMO a skimmer plus a hob filter provides good overall filtration.

So keeping 2 of the bigger hobs and adding a skimmer in the place of the smaller one, should I maybe try running some better bio media? Any suggestions?

I was also running chemi pure blue pretty religiously when we started this tank in the hobs, but got to where I just wasn't changing it out like I should. Would adding that to each be a good start?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

So keeping 2 of the bigger hobs and adding a skimmer in the place of the smaller one, should I maybe try running some better bio media? Any suggestions?

I was also running chemi pure blue pretty religiously when we started this tank in the hobs, but got to where I just wasn't changing it out like I should. Would adding that to each be a good start?

Personally I let the rocks handle the biofiltration, I don't use any other bio media. I also don't use chemi pure , but I believe its mainly activated carbon, and I do like running activated carbon on my tanks. It absorb's dissolved organics before they break down into nitrate, so it does help.

 

[Keithb22]

Running a tidal 75 on a 60b, adjusted the filter with the aquarium co-op modification. Finished with some bio filtration at the top. I custom cut as many sponges from them and Jam them in , clean those once a week. I’m fowlr only and run high phos and 40-50 nitrates. Randy said chemipure is better for phosphates than the blue, I’ll like set up an ac70 and run that with a couple pads. As everyone has already said, a sump is great if it’s possible and you can run a 40b from the Petco sale with a life reef hob overflow.

 

[KrisReef]

The HOB’s do provide water movement.

I would remove the magic ceramic rings and put in filter floss to rinse daily, or replace daily if wanted to export nutrients and waste that get hung up in the mechanic media inside these filters.

They would function like filter socks and wave makers. A bag of carbon or GFO option could help with the scary P numbers, but I would be very careful with GFO bags to avoid starving the coral of P.

 

[Keithb22]

I believe the chemipure is a solid choice, I know most gfo will clump up and turn into a brick. Either buy a ton of it and rebate when it does or get the chemi pure. Test to get an idea of how they’re dropping

 

[JayM]

Did some testing today after just getting back into really taking care of our 125. Api tests. Phosphate I think is honestly showing around 10 ppm.

I went a few months with being disheartened by losing corals, and everything costing so much. Stopped doing weekly or bi-weekly water changes for a while, and stopped testing.

Wife and I are both fully back into it now. I've been doing bi weekly water changes since November or December at around 15-20%.

Todays numbers are pictured. What in the world do I do? I feed fairly heavily, so I figure that's where a lot of my issues are coming from. Flakes/pellets/frozen 2-3x a day plus a bit of nori for the tangs and foxface/angels.

Would adding chemi pure back to the hobs, and eventually a skimmer help some?

Thanks!

I think I’d be most concerned about pH being low than anything else at the moment.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Since you state you are feeding dry foods: Dry foods are contrasting regarding their energetic value means lipid content. Many dry foods, especially flakes have 5 % or even less in lipids. Other dry foods have 11 to 18 % in lipids. Go for a high lipid content. The lipid will reduce the excretion of ammonia and phosphate by fish and in this way the nutrient buildup in the water.

You will have to feed less of dry foods that have a high energy/lipid content to have fish of the same or better condition than with low energy/lipid foods.