MasterTronic Pricing Released

[robbyg]

47 more PO4 test? 20 more NO3? Those would be awesome numbers if true. But hey I'm from Missouri ;)

Would definitely crush Reefbot and it's reported 50% usage fiasco.

I guess you can cut the water in half and cut the reagent in half but that also would cut the accuracy in half. Look for a disclaimer by them. A machine might make up for that accuracy loss, who knows!
It still looks like a two+ month supply of reagents for just two of the tests is going to be $55.
If it works well it would be worth the probably $40-$50 per month to get all the tests done daily.
Assumption being that when your tank is looking real stable you can cut back on the testing rate.

I am actually surprised that these guys cannot source reagents from an industrial chemical company just like Neptune did. It would cut the cost by a lot and put money in their pockets selling reagents.

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

So, as I began to read this thread I got super excited and was even thinking of possibly going the focustronic route on the 125 dedicated SPS build we are working on instead of duplicating the Neptune system already running on our mixed reef. After finishing to this point I think I’m back to either running another Neptune or going ghl. I trust my trident and every hand test back check I have done in the last 3 or so months against my trident has been within margin of human/equipment error. I just can’t justify what Reefbot or focustronic is asking for what is effectively old technology with trick programming requiring third party test kits that have a knack for changing their ratios from time to time. I recognize the trident is in that category as well but at least they supply their own reagents and calibration solution to adjust the machine if they change something. I’m reluctant to include the GHL in my statement as I am ignorant to the fact of how it works. Is it old technology as well or something actually new?

 

[User1]

I’m reluctant to include the GHL in my statement as I am ignorant to the fact of how it works. Is it old technology as well or something actually new?

GHL's full testing unit isn't out yet. Delayed due to C19. It is different such that it uses ION probes vs. the Tridents reagents. I'm not here to say one is better than the other. It is an opinion and, well, I'm biased since I own the trident.

Here is the deal and my recommendation for you since you asked about the GHL. Check out their information, one link below as a reference, and see how that may or may not work for your environment. If you are already invested in a controller ecosystem factor that in and the cost it would be to you should you want to change.

Again - I can't speak to better and I wouldn't. However, cost of entry as it relates to your current system is something I'd recommend looking at. Not sure if it helps but figured I'd throw it out there and it would apply to all products. All the best!

ION Director, Black – GHL USA

www.aquariumcomputer.com

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

GHL's full testing unit isn't out yet. Delayed due to C19. It is different such that it uses ION probes vs. the Tridents reagents. I'm not here to say one is better than the other. It is an opinion and, well, I'm biased since I own the trident.

Here is the deal and my recommendation for you since you asked about the GHL. Check out their information, one link below as a reference, and see how that may or may not work for your environment. If you are already invested in a controller ecosystem factor that in and the cost it would be to you should you want to change.

Again - I can't speak to better and I wouldn't. However, cost of entry as it relates to your current system is something I'd recommend looking at. Not sure if it helps but figured I'd throw it out there and it would apply to all products. All the best!

ION Director, Black – GHL USA

www.aquariumcomputer.com

Thank you for your input and information!!! Regarding running costs the Neptune system on the mixed reef I mentioned earlier will be staying on that system. We won’t be breaking down one system to start the other. The new system is just that, a completely new and separate system. So it will be getting its own controller system. So while cost of entry for the full GHL system to match the Neptune I am currently running is more, if Neptune can’t match the market with no3 and po4 testing by the time the ion director is actually released, the extra money spent may be worth it.

 

[Kalibur2]

This blew my mind when I saw the price. I was hoping 800 to 900 range even it being 999 would have been reasonable

 

[mitch91175]

Thank you for your input and information!!! Regarding running costs the Neptune system on the mixed reef I mentioned earlier will be staying on that system. We won’t be breaking down one system to start the other. The new system is just that, a completely new and separate system. So it will be getting its own controller system. So while cost of entry for the full GHL system to match the Neptune I am currently running is more, if Neptune can’t match the market with no3 and po4 testing by the time the ion director is actually released, the extra money spent may be worth it.

The Ion Director isn't anything ground-breaking either. The tools have been around for a long time. Just the aquarium trade is like 10 years behind everything else in some areas.

Ion Director is essential this, but with automated testing and more probes:

Amazon product

 

[mitch91175]

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

The Ion Director isn't anything ground-breaking either. The tools have been around for a long time. Just the aquarium trade is like 10 years behind everything else in some areas.

Ion Director is essential this, but with automated testing and more probes:

Amazon product

So basically what you are saying is we need to gather as a mob of reefers and start demanding some ACTUAL innovation! Hahaha.

 

[mitch91175]

So basically what you are saying is we need to gather as a mob of reefers and start demanding some ACTUAL innovation! Hahaha.

The companies do a good job. There are lots of things out there now

Calcium Ion-Selective Electrode - Vernier

The Calcium Ion-Selective Electrode (ISE) can be used to measure the concentration of Calcium (Ca2+) in aqueous samples.

www.vernier.com

 

[mitch91175]

That last link even has app is seems and has potassium as well

 

[mitch91175]

Ok this is pretty darn cool and modular love it. Got me thinking on this one.

 

[mitch91175]

Potassium probe. This may answer some question about the Ion Director:

 

[ingchr1]

Ion Director is essential this, but with automated testing and more probes

All of the sensors are in a single probe. I think they are saying average life of the probe is a year (6-18 months), depending upon testing frequency.

ION Director Multi-ION Sensor, Premium – GHL USA

www.aquariumcomputer.com

 

[robbyg]

The problem with manually testing using Ion Probes is that they must be calibrated before each use.
That is just about as time consuming as using a regular reagent based testers. The same comparison could be said of a Hanna testers vs the Trident. Both can achieve the same result but do you want to put in the work?

 

[mitch91175]

The problem with manually testing using Ion Probes is that they must be calibrated before each use.
That is just about as time consuming as using a regular reagent based testers. The same comparison could be said of a Hanna testers vs the Trident. Both can achieve the same result but do you want to put in the work?

I do not do it on my AM NO3 one. Doesn’t mean it right or wrong but I just need detectable NO3

 

[Focustronic_Eric]

thank you for all the comments. we don't visit here too often but was directed to this post by a fellow reefer.

hope I will be able to answer all the comments so far

1) cost - developing a product is not easy nor cheap. just engineers/designers we have 5 to develop this product for over 1 year and not to talk about all the toolings required to make a unique product. agree that the cost may not be for everyone but when you have considered the features, it may make sense. (i'll get to the features in a bit).

2) Reagent - the MT tests for NO3, PO4, Ca, Mg, KH, and OLI (our own parameter). Depending on your need and if you have other testers like Alkatronic or you might be running calcium reactor, you may not need to test all the allowed parameters but focus on nutrients, ca and mg. meaning you won't need to load all types of reagnets for it to work. We develop the product to accept 3rd party test kits mainly is to allow flexibility and time to market. We will be bringing out our own reagent in the next couple months. From my released info, we designed the product so that we do not need frequent refills and also we do not use the exact volumes based on the test but derived our own formulas based on the kits suggested. this way we will improve the accuracy and precision over the regular test kits. as for Ca and Mg, we have said this in many occasions, once you get kh stable the stability of Ca and Mg can be acheived easily (assuming your liquids are balanced). so testing once a day is not necessary but every few days would be suggested just to make sure everything is in check. (example is that the liquids or calibration of doser is off and you can quickly adjust it back)

3) IONIC probes - as someone said this in earlier post, there is still a running cost like changing the probe every 6-12 months depending on test frequency (more test = shorter life) and the calibration liquid that is needed before each test (so it is like a test reagent in terms of cost). ionic probe is not a new tech but just being used in other industy and is now taken to reefing. PO4 cannot be measured and the accuracy is still unknown (in fact, I have tested it before deciding on going the reagent route). One thing I like to point out is that in saltwater (marine), there can be a lot of conflicting ions which will reduce the accuracy of ionic probes. maybe other brands have methods to overcome these but these are the basic points about doing ionic probes tester.

4) what good is auto testing when you cannot automate actions. With mastertronic, you can do changes via Dosetronic, or Powertronic (soon to be released) and even control lighting (Solartronic) which most of us feels it is a "set and forget" parameter of a tank. In fact, lighting should also be adjusted based on water chemistry. for example, when nutrients goes up, so does your lighting. Not to talk about the patented dynamic light source for Solartronic where a fixture can have mutiple sweetspots and 7 days of different schedule.

5) KH in Mastertronic. Why go automatic if you have to maintain the tester every few days or a week. with this in mind, we allow kh being done once a day so that the unit can go without refill for around a month. When user really wants to control their kh, Alkatronic is the way to go with high accuracy/precision while low running cost (probably lowest compared to others). the KH in Mastertronic is to give user an "overview" if they want to start with Mastertronic so they have all the important parameters but when things get serious, KH should be handled by Alkatronic.

6) Hiring a tester - not impossible if you find the right person. but the thing is can he/she automate other settings in the system if anything is out of range? Call you back if you are on holiday or having a meeting at the office? not to talk about if you can trust his tests (assuming no human errors)

7) Where the company is based. If this is your main concern, we are based in Hong Kong so I am not sure why your source tells you we are from mainland China but is not a problem. HK is now part of China if that matters to you. We are considering moving or spliting production to other countries. if you or anyone has contacts to assembly facilities in the USA which might be interested in making products for us, pass him/her my contact ([email protected]).


hope I didn't miss many points but can message us if you need more answers.

 

[robbyg]

thank you for all the comments. we don't visit here too often but was directed to this post by a fellow reefer.

hope I will be able to answer all the comments so far

1) cost - developing a product is not easy nor cheap. just engineers/designers we have 5 to develop this product for over 1 year and not to talk about all the toolings required to make a unique product. agree that the cost may not be for everyone but when you have considered the features, it may make sense. (i'll get to the features in a bit).

2) Reagent - the MT tests for NO3, PO4, Ca, Mg, KH, and OLI (our own parameter). Depending on your need and if you have other testers like Alkatronic or you might be running calcium reactor, you may not need to test all the allowed parameters but focus on nutrients, ca and mg. meaning you won't need to load all types of reagnets for it to work. We develop the product to accept 3rd party test kits mainly is to allow flexibility and time to market. We will be bringing out our own reagent in the next couple months. From my released info, we designed the product so that we do not need frequent refills and also we do not use the exact volumes based on the test but derived our own formulas based on the kits suggested. this way we will improve the accuracy and precision over the regular test kits. as for Ca and Mg, we have said this in many occasions, once you get kh stable the stability of Ca and Mg can be acheived easily (assuming your liquids are balanced). so testing once a day is not necessary but every few days would be suggested just to make sure everything is in check. (example is that the liquids or calibration of doser is off and you can quickly adjust it back)

3) IONIC probes - as someone said this in earlier post, there is still a running cost like changing the probe every 6-12 months depending on test frequency (more test = shorter life) and the calibration liquid that is needed before each test (so it is like a test reagent in terms of cost). ionic probe is not a new tech but just being used in other industy and is now taken to reefing. PO4 cannot be measured and the accuracy is still unknown (in fact, I have tested it before deciding on going the reagent route). One thing I like to point out is that in saltwater (marine), there can be a lot of conflicting ions which will reduce the accuracy of ionic probes. maybe other brands have methods to overcome these but these are the basic points about doing ionic probes tester.

4) what good is auto testing when you cannot automate actions. With mastertronic, you can do changes via Dosetronic, or Powertronic (soon to be released) and even control lighting (Solartronic) which most of us feels it is a "set and forget" parameter of a tank. In fact, lighting should also be adjusted based on water chemistry. for example, when nutrients goes up, so does your lighting. Not to talk about the patented dynamic light source for Solartronic where a fixture can have mutiple sweetspots and 7 days of different schedule.

5) KH in Mastertronic. Why go automatic if you have to maintain the tester every few days or a week. with this in mind, we allow kh being done once a day so that the unit can go without refill for around a month. When user really wants to control their kh, Alkatronic is the way to go with high accuracy/precision while low running cost (probably lowest compared to others). the KH in Mastertronic is to give user an "overview" if they want to start with Mastertronic so they have all the important parameters but when things get serious, KH should be handled by Alkatronic.

6) Hiring a tester - not impossible if you find the right person. but the thing is can he/she automate other settings in the system if anything is out of range? Call you back if you are on holiday or having a meeting at the office? not to talk about if you can trust his tests (assuming no human errors)

7) Where the company is based. If this is your main concern, we are based in Hong Kong so I am not sure why your source tells you we are from mainland China but is not a problem. HK is now part of China if that matters to you. We are considering moving or spliting production to other countries. if you or anyone has contacts to assembly facilities in the USA which might be interested in making products for us, pass him/her my contact ([email protected]).


hope I didn't miss many points but can message us if you need more answers.

Thanks for taking the time to make a post.
While I do understand the R&D costs on such a product is high you also has to be mindful of the customer base you intend to sell it to. The price is out of reach to most of us by about $300 and while I don't know if you just plan on manufactoring just in small quantities for a niche market or trying to reach the masses I think that this is something to consider if you are indeed trying to reach the masses.

It is great news to hear you will be making your own reagents. That will definitely make the unit more attractive to own.

Lastly on the testing interval I can see in stable tanks where the long intervals will work, but it should be an option that one can do shorter testing intervals. With the Mastertronic can you shorten the interval to daily for all tests? Also how long does it take to do a single test?

Looking forward to a reply.

 

[MartinWaite]

P

Yeah this is a marketing blunder (could be totally wrong). The anticipation was there for the device but they will take a hit at that price point. With nothing else out ATM with a pricing structure in the $500-$800 range, I believe they would have hit a homerun and taken major market share from the other players.

Now if the device ALSO tested alkalinity, then the $1300 price point would be easier to stomach.

The Mastertronic does test alkalinity but only once a day so it will not act on the test result unlike the Alkatronic. The Mastertronic, Alkatronic, and Dosetronic all will talk to each other and to the new Solartronic and the coming Powertronic then when they is something out of spec it will react accordingly like a raise it Nitrates and Phosphates will tell the leds to reduce intensity and increase the time your refugium light is on and then reverse the actions when they come back down.

 

[MartinWaite]

One advantage is that this bot does everything the alkatronic and mastertronic does but in one device instead of multiple.

So can bot adjust your alkalinity if it's low? Think you mean that the bot can do a part of what the Mastertronic does as the Mastertronic will talk to Dosetronic (of you have it/connected) and adjust your dosing to suit, plus it will talk will the new Solartronic and the to be released Powertronic which you can set to do certain things to overcome the test results.

 

[Dilan Patel]

So can bot adjust your alkalinity if it's low? Think you mean that the bot can do a part of what the Mastertronic does as the Mastertronic will talk to Dosetronic (of you have it/connected) and adjust your dosing to suit, plus it will talk will the new Solartronic and the to be released Powertronic which you can set to do certain things to overcome the test results.

As of now no the bot cannot adjust elements...a dosing product is in the works and I believe it should be available the end of the year. And it can do 99.9% of what the mastertronic can do + currently test more elements. And can do the same if not more than the mastertronic when the dosing pump comes out. All this testing and control will come at a fraction of the price. Don't get me wrong Focustronic makes some GREAT products but my personal opinion is the bot is the best bang for your buck. I also misspoke about the alkatronic as I did not realize it can test and make adjustments.