MasterTronic Pricing Released

GregOyeah · Aug 14, 2020

What makes the Alkatronic such a great product is that you can DIY the reagent refills for dirt cheap and don’t lose any accuracy on the measurements.

$1200 is a hefty price tag but if there is a way to DIY the reagents like you can with the Alkatronic then it becomes a bargain.

Focustronic_Eric · Aug 15, 2020

robbyg said:
Thanks for taking the time to make a post.
While I do understand the R&D costs on such a product is high you also has to be mindful of the customer base you intend to sell it to. The price is out of reach to most of us by about $300 and while I don't know if you just plan on manufacturing just in small quantities for a niche market or trying to reach the masses I think that this is something to consider if you are indeed trying to reach the masses.

It is great news to hear you will be making your own reagents. That will definitely make the unit more attractive to own.

Lastly on the testing interval I can see in stable tanks where the long intervals will work, but it should be an option that one can do shorter testing intervals. With the Mastertronic can you shorten the interval to daily for all tests? Also how long does it take to do a single test?

Looking forward to a reply.

Hello!!

thanks for the good questions.

yes, price is definitely something we like to work on but as with Alkatronic and Dosetronic, we don't make products purely based on cost but features and quality. Just like Alkatronic, the probe itself is $80 which can be bought from the original supplier Atlas. Not to mention the number of companies/people within the supply chain, raw materials suppliers -> Focustronic + contract manufacturer -> distributors -> LFS and we should probably take info account logistics. Yes, if the overall cost is lower, we can target to the masses as you say and many factors in the equation can be lower but with a new product, we need to prove the use case by the general reefing communities around the world then maybe we can "slim down" the unit for a more economical version.

Yes, our own reagent is in the making but honestly that shouldn't be the biggest factor as these kits may already be in the reefer's hands.

Let me explain in more detail. For the test interval, all parameters (except KH) can be set to test several times a day but as we envision, testing several times a day could be when a tank is newly setup. once it is passed the cycle process, things should be relatively stable and testing Ca and Mg every few days should be sufficient. Remember, too high or too low Ca and Mg won't crash your tank immediately but NO3, PO4 and KH will. that's why from our point of view, KH (by Alkatronic) comes first, then the nutrients and lastly Ca and Mg.

We do not want reefers to test beyond what is necessary and incur extra running cost. Our products are to make reefing easier and more automated with real data.

Focustronic_Eric · Aug 15, 2020

MartinWaite said:
So can bot adjust your alkalinity if it's low? Think you mean that the bot can do a part of what the Mastertronic does as the Mastertronic will talk to Dosetronic (of you have it/connected) and adjust your dosing to suit, plus it will talk will the new Solartronic and the to be released Powertronic which you can set to do certain things to overcome the test results.

well said Martin. what's good with auto test when you can't automate the actions needed by as simple as adjusting dosing/lighting/power swtich?

Focustronic_Eric · Aug 15, 2020

Dilan Patel said:
As of now no the bot cannot adjust elements...a dosing product is in the works and I believe it should be available the end of the year. And it can do 99.9% of what the mastertronic can do + currently test more elements. And can do the same if not more than the mastertronic when the dosing pump comes out. All this testing and control will come at a fraction of the price. Don't get me wrong Focustronic makes some GREAT products but my personal opinion is the bot is the best bang for your buck. I also misspoke about the alkatronic as I did not realize it can test and make adjustments.

is just like going ios or android. once with ios, you will probably get the mac (or reverse order). so it is for diffierent users to decide which route they like to go with. costs may be the first to consider but after that is the reliability, accuracy, and expand ability within the brand/range of products.

what is good with Alkatronic / Dosetronic combo is that we have build it auto adjust algorithms for auto adjustment to the dosing schedule. this makes it even more hands off and user just with a click of a button allow auto pilot with dosing based on KH consumption. with that to be possible, you don't take only 1 kh measurement a day but at least every 3-4 hours so you have sufficient data points to make the calculations.

mitch91175 · Aug 15, 2020

Focustronic_Eric said:
is just like going ios or android. once with ios, you will probably get the mac (or reverse order). so it is for diffierent users to decide which route they like to go with. costs may be the first to consider but after that is the reliability, accuracy, and expand ability within the brand/range of products.

what is good with Alkatronic / Dosetronic combo is that we have build it auto adjust algorithms for auto adjustment to the dosing schedule. this makes it even more hands off and user just with a click of a button allow auto pilot with dosing based on KH consumption. with that to be possible, you don't take only 1 kh measurement a day but at least every 3-4 hours so you have sufficient data points to make the calculations.

There is zero denying that the Alkatronic is legit. No one can tell me otherwise on that. Dosetronic with 5 heads also fits the bill. I don’t auto correct since I had my initial incident and just do not need the auto correction feature for my system (at least not that I feel).

Mastertronic likely will give Reefbot a run for its money and if worth the price tag then people will buy it. If not then people will hold off longer. It’s easier to stomach paying $500, $600 for some that works and may need some polishing but when you put over $1k price tag we honestly expect excellence.

Once some usage info hits the mainstream that’ll make this all crystal clear. I know people wanting units but they like a lot want to see more details like:

1. How long does each test take?
2. What does the software look like and how does it function?
3. When using the reagents and testing infrequently what affect does that have on the reagent?
4. If you make your own reagents do you have an expected or estimated pricing for each?
5. Is there any routine maintenance other than tube replacement and calibration?
6. Will replacement parts be readily available?
7. What does Mastertronic/Dosetronic control look like?

Dilan Patel · Aug 15, 2020

Focustronic_Eric said:
is just like going ios or android. once with ios, you will probably get the mac (or reverse order). so it is for diffierent users to decide which route they like to go with. costs may be the first to consider but after that is the reliability, accuracy, and expand ability within the brand/range of products.

what is good with Alkatronic / Dosetronic combo is that we have build it auto adjust algorithms for auto adjustment to the dosing schedule. this makes it even more hands off and user just with a click of a button allow auto pilot with dosing based on KH consumption. with that to be possible, you don't take only 1 kh measurement a day but at least every 3-4 hours so you have sufficient data points to make the calculations.

You are very correct as this is like ios and android. Both are great machines that do as they were made to do. It is all about picking the one that fits your needs the best :)

MartinWaite · Aug 15, 2020

Dilan Patel said:
As of now no the bot cannot adjust elements...a dosing product is in the works and I believe it should be available the end of the year. And it can do 99.9% of what the mastertronic can do + currently test more elements. And can do the same if not more than the mastertronic when the dosing pump comes out. All this testing and control will come at a fraction of the price. Don't get me wrong Focustronic makes some GREAT products but my personal opinion is the bot is the best bang for your buck. I also misspoke about the alkatronic as I did not realize it can test and make adjustments.

Don't know about reefbot can do 99.99% of Mastertronic only if you look to the future can it get in the 90%+ region but if we look to the future of MT you could say it will also test strontium, Iodine, or copper (guessing) it has been released with the full intention of increasing the different testing capabilities but it can adjust various different things that other manufacturers haven't looked at publicly. Reefbot is good no doubt in fact that good someone I know has 2 so it can get the tests done in a day. When the XXXXtronics are all linked together and with what is coming reefbot is still quiet away back. Mastertronic gives a precision of 0.005mg/l for P04 and 0.1mg/l for nitrate how good is the Reefbot? One of my bugbears with both is the what seems a limited number of vials being only 12 it doesn't seem that many although where does one draw the line with the numbers of them.

Dilan Patel · Aug 15, 2020

MartinWaite said:
Don't know about reefbot can do 99.99% of Mastertronic only if you look to the future can it get in the 90%+ region but if we look to the future of MT you could say it will also test strontium, Iodine, or copper (guessing) it has been released with the full intention of increasing the different testing capabilities but it can adjust various different things that other manufacturers haven't looked at publicly. Reefbot is good no doubt in fact that good someone I know has 2 so it can get the tests done in a day. When the XXXXtronics are all linked together and with what is coming reefbot is still quiet away back. Mastertronic gives a precision of 0.005mg/l for P04 and 0.1mg/l for nitrate how good is the Reefbot? One of my bugbears with both is the what seems a limited number of vials being only 12 it doesn't seem that many although where does one draw the line with the numbers of them.

Yes the amount of vials are problamatic as more test become available. Wish a better option was available!

Sisterlimonpot · Aug 15, 2020

MartinWaite said:
Don't know about reefbot can do 99.99% of Mastertronic only if you look to the future can it get in the 90%+ region but if we look to the future of MT you could say it will also test strontium, Iodine, or copper (guessing) it has been released with the full intention of increasing the different testing capabilities but it can adjust various different things that other manufacturers haven't looked at publicly. Reefbot is good no doubt in fact that good someone I know has 2 so it can get the tests done in a day. When the XXXXtronics are all linked together and with what is coming reefbot is still quiet away back. Mastertronic gives a precision of 0.005mg/l for P04 and 0.1mg/l for nitrate how good is the Reefbot? One of my bugbears with both is the what seems a limited number of vials being only 12 it doesn't seem that many although where does one draw the line with the numbers of them.

I don't think many people are touting reefbot. I guess if you were to compare mastertronic to something it would have to be the reefbot because of the similarities in which it performs tests.

I still stand by the notion that the mastertronic is grossly overpriced. And I think @robbyg hit the nail on the head, when he said that it's going to narrow the amount of people that will be interested.

Chances are, I'm going to sit this one out, there are so many options out there and more on the horizon.

Don't get me wrong, this has the potential to be far better than trident for the simple fact that you're not bound to xx number of doses per day and a short reagent shelf life. Can't say how it will stack up to IonD, we will have to wait to see that verdict, and as for reefbot??? I immediately dismiss that unit as a practical piece of reef equipment.

I've been preaching the notion that daily calcium and magnesium testing are "for the tourists", there's absolutely no reason for them to be tested daily. However N03 and P04, I can use a daily reading of those numbers, but I'm gonna have to hold out for a cheaper solution.

Pny · Aug 16, 2020

One of the main cons of the non-pro reefbot is the small number of reagent slots. If I remember correctly it can not have reagents for a full set at once... How many reagent slots do the mastertronic have, and how many slots are required by a full set of test incl KH?

Dilan Patel · Aug 16, 2020

Pny said:
One of the main cons of the non-pro reefbot is the small number of reagent slots. If I remember correctly it can not have reagents for a full set at once... How many reagent slots do the mastertronic have, and how many slots are required by a full set of test incl KH?

dont know what you mean by full set at once. But I am able to test : alk, calc, po4 and no3 with two left over reagent slots.

Focustronic_Eric · Aug 16, 2020

Pny said:
One of the main cons of the non-pro reefbot is the small number of reagent slots. If I remember correctly it can not have reagents for a full set at once... How many reagent slots do the mastertronic have, and how many slots are required by a full set of test incl KH?

there are 12 vials and based on the current type of tests (NO3, PO4, Ca, Mg, KH, OLI) 12 is what it needs. OLI is "reagentless"

ddaddy2420 · Aug 18, 2020

mitch91175 said:
Found this post from @robbyg on the ReefBot. Seems it has some real concerns.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reefbot-reliability-technical-support-and-roi.729613/post-7607765
Disadvantages
1. Only use 50% of the vials
2. If a test kit used manually test 50 you get way less test than that from the ReefBot.
3. If the unit is offline it is pretty much useless (cannot do anything not even test).
4. No local access to the unit.
5. Test take a really long time to complete.
6. The unit is very large.
7. Support hours

Advantages
1. It test a lot of parameters
2. You can use a wide range of test kits
3. Pricing not terrible at $900.

I have some experience with reefbot as i purchased one 3 weeks ago.

So far it has not been a good experience at all. Setting it up was not a problem, but as soon as i ran my first test, and opened up with reefbot i found a bent needle and lots of liquid inside the unit. Needle ended up being a slight adjustment to the proximity switch inside the unit (took 10 minutes), the liquid inside was another story altogether. After talking with them for several days, we finally found the issue was a burnt up chip on the motherboard. Sent them pics of the chip and was promised a replacement within days. 1 1/2 weeks later i received 2 chips, both were the wrong one. Now i wait again on the correct chip to arrive. So 3 weeks in on a new unit and I've had to adjust a prox switch, replace a chip and repair a broken piece holding the testing vial due to the needle hitting it and cracking it.

All the while going thru this, i've run thru almost half my reagants for ammonia, nitrate, and phosphate testing each time i thought i had fixed the problems. And each time i thought i had fixed the problem, i had to wait at least a day for a response.

So 3 weeks after setting it up, i've nothing to show except a bunch of bogus tests. On a positive side, i am pretty sure by now i could get hired on by them as a reefbot technician. I've gone thru and removed and installed just about every pump, line, chip, test tube, needle, or any other component I've left off several times.

Lastly about the reefbot, the app, is not user friendly at all. In fact it's fairly confusing as far as apps go. You have to switch between your tank and the reefbot, depending on what you are trying to do. And you also have to be aware that when you change something out, you have to reset it in the settings (needles for example). I wasn't aware the reefbot is still in Beta, but i can completely see it and agree with it considering all the issues I've had.

Dale