Melting Xenia ?

Brady4000

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Ok back to this....not for the original intention but for you. What were you taught ? Somebody told you I got this live rock its special it's the best and It comes from my tank! Not only that I'm gonna give you the sand too as a bonus to spike it. You simply move it all and Bob's your Uncle. No nitrate/phos/ or ammonia spike when I came over and set it all up for ya with big smile.
Live sand in a bag new means nothing. In fact it is mostly a non factor. Moving old sand? You saw that right? She brought in old sand according to the previous posts or at least according to your suggestion. That in itself is a disaster waiting to happen. The amount of detritus and junk in there would spike it off charts alone. I'm tired and really should go to bed, this is pointless
Dude what are you talking about...

I asked if she used live sand. This is live sand... you buy it.

CaribSea Arag-Alive 20-Pound Fiji Pink Sand

And live rock is special, that’s why when someone has dry rock they dose bacteria shrimp etc and wait for it to become “live”.

But if the rock is already “live”, truly live. Yes you can just start a tank with it.

When “most” reefers ask if they started with live sand, most reefers don’t think, oh your asking if the LFS just shoveled some sand out of thire tanks for you... is this what got you on one?

Edit: most just don’t use live rock because of pest, not cycle.

Maybe you need to go back and read my post as well as her before you get bent out of shape on something that wasn’t said.

It was a genuine question on why I was wrong. Your answer was, because she’s breaking rules and something about old sand...
 
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Lmcg8020

Lmcg8020

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i am also very new to all of this type of stuff as well, but i will say that it seems that the OP has jumped into something that there is little knowledge, or preparation for, and i feel that youre just going way too fast. i personally wanted to do a coral setup, but i knew that there is more too it than there is just with keeping a saltwater tank going properly without corals involved, which have many more parameters to worrry about.
i would highly suggest doing alot of digging into articles and videos that help explain all of the ins and outs of saltwater fish keeping/reef keeping. i dont want to sound like an butt, but if one of the questions that comes up is "how do i test for ammonia", youre gonna have a bad time, and you are behind the curve so far that youre throwing stuff at the wall to see stuff stick and just hoping for the best.
i personally would start with just getting down to understanding and have good enough knowledge on just how to keep fish in a saltwater environment. that will give you enough knowledge to know the nitrogen cycle, how to do water changes, how to do testings, learning the ups and downs with all of that (things such s problems that arise in it), and then when you are comfortable with that, then jump into the other stuff. with what you have, and being really new to it, i feel you went from 0 to 100 in a week, and are not prepared for it. the lack of different tests and devices shows it. fishkeeping, especially saltwater, isnt forgiving on fish and other livebeings. by the time you get the supplies you ordered, you may have lost corals already while you are waiting to receive it.
I def think I went to fast, but I here now and I’m learning as fast as I can and doing all I can to keep the coral I do have alive. I wasn’t told I had to wait, I bought a “turbo bacterial solution” from the lfs and they said in 48 hrs I was good to go to add coral. I am very aware now of the lack of know how and required equipment. Doesn’t mean I can’t ask for help.
 

FishyFishFish

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Can you explain a bit more about the rock you used? Was it taken out of the water of a running tank or was it ‘dry’ live rock off the shelf?

The only reason I ask is that if it was truly live rock (i.e. already full of bacteria) then you probably wouldn’t have needed the ‘turbo bacterial solution’.

Did your fish shop sell you everything (i.e. the tank, sand and rock as well)? I’m just trying to determine if they actually knew where you were starting from or not.
 

((FORDTECH))

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Can you explain a bit more about the rock you used? Was it taken out of the water of a running tank or was it ‘dry’ live rock off the shelf?

The only reason I ask is that if it was truly live rock (i.e. already full of bacteria) then you probably wouldn’t have needed the ‘turbo bacterial solution’.

Did your fish shop sell you everything (i.e. the tank, sand and rock as well)? I’m just trying to determine if they actually knew where you were starting from or not.
Good question
 

melonheadorion

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I def think I went to fast, but I here now and I’m learning as fast as I can and doing all I can to keep the coral I do have alive. I wasn’t told I had to wait, I bought a “turbo bacterial solution” from the lfs and they said in 48 hrs I was good to go to add coral. I am very aware now of the lack of know how and required equipment. Doesn’t mean I can’t ask for help.
if you have other LFS in your area, i would definately switch. the one you are using seems to be in it for the money and not the welfare of what they sell, or the welfare of you. i dont know what kind of questions you had asked previous to making your purchases (if any at all), but i dont think they were looking out for your wellbeing. assuming that you would have asked any questions, i would hope that they got the feeling that you as a consumer, were new to this, and they should have been more helpful or started with baby steps


i personally suggest doing some learning on the nitrogen cycle. before you buy any other livestock, learn what their specific requirements are. it wouldnt surprise me if that same shop tries to sell you something that isnt compatible. since you are in deep on the reef stuff, i would suggest watching videos (many videos) on reefs for beginners.

if it all dies off while you are waiting for the proper supplies, my suggestion would then to be to restart, and start slow. instead of jumping into a reef tank, start with fish first. thats just my opinion, so take it for what its worth. at this point, i would also stop taking any suggestions from that LFS or take what they say with a grain of salt, and research by asking here, or looking online to confirm that their word is good
 
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Brady4000

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Good question
I asked this question and I get hammered... someone els dose and it’s a good question.

I am out.

@Lmcg8020 your getting good advice, nothing to do with you,

Edit: and when I say good advice I am not talking about your LFS, I am talking about on R2R. Just to be clear.

Good luck.
 

CanuckReefer

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Dude what are you talking about...

I asked if she used live sand. This is live sand... you buy it.

CaribSea Arag-Alive 20-Pound Fiji Pink Sand

And live rock is special, that’s why when someone has dry rock they dose bacteria shrimp etc and wait for it to become “live”.

But if the rock is already “live”, truly live. Yes you can just start a tank with it.

When “most” reefers ask if they started with live sand, most reefers don’t think, oh your asking if the LFS just shoveled some sand out of thire tanks for you... is this what got you on one?

Edit: most just don’t use live rock because of pest, not cycle.
Look....this is your quote '

If she started off with fully live/established rock and established sand. What els in the tank needs to be established for the coral? '

Read that, and then read it again. 'Fully live sand ' ok lets surmise it's out of the bag is what you actually meant. Was it rinsed? No? Yes? Was it actually fully live sand meaning in a tank for more than 6 months? Let's bring on the rock next, 'established live rock ' from where? You are starting a tank with live rock especially from an LFS, I assure you it's not 'established' it takes at least a month or more to fully acclimate and go through cycle in a new setup. You are providing bad advice. It's that simple, the parameters are all over the map. Her corals are doing the ammonia cycle for goodness sakes. This is entirely ridiculous on your part and I'm exhausted lol....geez...
 

((FORDTECH))

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I asked this question and I get hammered... someone els dose and it’s a good question.

I am out.

@Lmcg8020 your getting good advice, nothing to do with you.

Good luck.
I think I jumped in after you asked that but either way if you did this is good info for us to have to continue with this or at least realize her lfs took her
 

Brady4000

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Look....this is your quote '

If she started off with fully live/established rock and established sand. What els in the tank needs to be established for the coral? '

Read that, and then read it again. 'Fully live sand ' ok lets surmise it's out of the bag is what you actually meant. Was it rinsed? No? Yes? Was it actually fully live sand meaning in a tank for more than 6 months? Let's bring on the rock next, 'established live rock ' from where? You are starting a tank with live rock especially from an LFS, I assure you it's not 'established' it takes at least a month or more to fully acclimate and go through cycle in a new setup. You are providing bad advice. It's that simple, the parameters are all over the map. Her corals are doing the ammonia cycle for goodness sakes. This is entirely ridiculous on your part and I'm exhausted lol....geez...
You make no sense. Feel free to PM.
 
SWEET 17 After Sale!

((FORDTECH))

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I asked this question and I get hammered... someone els dose and it’s a good question.

I am out.

@Lmcg8020 your getting good advice, nothing to do with you,

Edit: and when I say good advice I am not talking about your LFS, I am talking about on R2R. Just to be clear.

Good luck.
And also I’m not sure where you stand cause while this is going on I’m in other threads but I did say 8 days is way to soon even if she had live rock I don’t care how live it is all live rock has die off when transferred from tank to tank unless possibly it was only 20 min out of water
 

CanuckReefer

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And also I’m not sure where you stand cause while this is going on I’m in other threads but I did say 8 days is way to soon even if she had live rock I don’t care how live it is all live rock has die off when transferred from tank to tank unless possibly it was only 20 min out of water
^^^^ this!
 

((FORDTECH))

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I asked this question and I get hammered... someone els dose and it’s a good question.

I am out.

@Lmcg8020 your getting good advice, nothing to do with you,

Edit: and when I say good advice I am not talking about your LFS, I am talking about on R2R. Just to be clear.

Good luck.
Live rock comes from many different places some come straight from ocean been in for 100 years but after the 3 days to your house without water in a box it still can’t be added to a system without Ammonia spike
 

Brady4000

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Live rock comes from many different places some come straight from ocean been in for 100 years but after the 3 days to your house without water in a box it still can’t be added to a system without Ammonia spike
Only replying because your quoting me...

Yea.... I agree... that’s why I asked about die off and ammonia.... and asked if she checked for ammonia. in fact I am almost positive I was the first one to ask this.... but somehow I am the one not in the know.... and the wheel was reinvented last night....

Some LFS, do sell actual lIve rock that’s been sitting in water for months. At least mine dose. I didn’t go this route, but they do.

That’s why I asked. Don’t get me wrong, I am not or nor am I claiming to be an “expert” reefer. But we are talking about the initial cycle... which is basic... and if I am wrong I would have loved to know why, because I myself like learning.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

((FORDTECH))

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Only replying because your quoting me...

Yea.... I agree... that’s why I asked about die off and ammonia.... and asked if she checked for ammonia. in fact I am almost positive I was the first one to ask this.... but somehow I am the one not in the know.... and the wheel was reinvented last night....

Some LFS, do sell actual lIve rock that’s been sitting in water for months. At least mine dose. I didn’t go this route, but they do.

That’s why I asked. Don’t get me wrong, I am not or nor am I claiming to be an “expert” reefer. But we are talking about the initial cycle... which is basic... and if I am wrong I would have loved to know why, because I myself like learning.
I think your mostly correct and if the answers to your questions would have been posted after you asked them we would not be here. My lfs also sells live rock. But just because hers does does not mean it was treated properly by her either. Maybe was bought 2 days prior while tank was being set up. Looks like she has 75 gallon tank. Where did all the water come from. I doubt it was all brought home from store. Was it rodi? Did Rock sit and wait while rodi was made. These are all questions that only one person has the answers for. And we won’t know unless told. One thing we do know is her lfs took her for a ride. NOw we need to find out how hard.
 

Brady4000

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I think your mostly correct and if the answers to your questions would have been posted after you asked them we would not be here. My lfs also sells live rock. But just because hers does does not mean it was treated properly by her either. Maybe was bought 2 days prior while tank was being set up. Looks like she has 75 gallon tank. Where did all the water come from. I doubt it was all brought home from store. Was it rodi? Did Rick sit and wait while rodi was made. These are all questions that only one person has the answers for. And we won’t know unless told.
I agree that’s why I asked.. that’s where I was going with it when I asked...

good night.
 

FishyFishFish

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Fish survive overnight shipping delivery and don’t (always) die. In a similar fashion, live rock in a bucket full of water will suffer minimal/no die off if bought wet from a LFS and taken home fairly promptly (or quickly swapped between 2 tanks). Live rock in a plastic bag with no water won’t have huge amounts of die off in an hour or so.

Without knowing what type of rock and where it came from, we’re only guessing if a tank could be ready for coral in 8 days.

As an example, I recently needed to put some corals (that had been in shipping for 5 days - thanks Fedex) in a second tank that wasn’t cycled at all and the ones that made it to me alive survived, even though they weren’t in the best of health when they were put in. This was zero days of cycling with no bottle bacteria but I did constantly test for ammonia (and also had an ammonia alert badge running).

The unknown in this case is that, as ammonia hasn’t been tested, everyone is guessing as to whether the tank was ‘safe’ for corals or not.

I think one of the confusions of earlier posts was mention of ‘established sand’. Other R2R threads I have read have suggested this is bad practice and can cause issues unless it is thoroughly washed. This gives the result that established live rock is good but established live sand is bad (unless that sand is cleaned to the point that it isn’t really ‘live’ any more). In my opinion (for what it’s worth as a relative newcomer), with a new bag of sand and established live rock with no/minimal die off, and a bacteria product, a tank might potentially be able to safely support a few corals after 8 days (even with my more relaxed attitude towards the timeline I would not recommend corals after 2 days).

In any case, that’s all done now. All the OP can do is to start to try to stabilize everything from now on. One of the starting points to that, as I already suggested, is to see what the current ammonia levels are. Salinity stability is a very close second.

If the sand has previously been used in another tank before, that might be a bridge to cross in the future as well. If it was dry sand (live or not) then that’s one less thing to potentially worry about.
 

homer1475

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This thread is actually quite comical. 6 pages of newbs arguing over whether the tank is cycled with live rock or live sand, yet the glaring issue is salinity is way to low, and alkalinity is way to high. Regardless if the tank is only 8 days old, the OP has coral and fish in it, it's our jobs to make sure those inhabitants live regardless of how the tank was started.

Get salinity in range(1.024 to 1.026), knock down alk with WC(you want this somewhere between 7 and 10. Most go with a middle ground of around 8.5), and I'll bet 90% of your problems go away.

Bravo to @((FORDTECH)) for ignoring the banter, and actually trying to help the OP.
 

Garf

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Salinity has gone from 1.025 to 1.028 to 1.022 in the last week. If you get your salinity stable, that variable can be eliminated. I would make my own reference solution at 35ppt with the DIY calibration solution for your refractometer. Only top up evaporation with RODI water (have you got an ATO?) You must check the salinity of the water used for waterchanges (1% per day minimizes any swings even further and it doesn’t need to be heated). Don’t mix up fresh saltwater using cups per gallon etc., to start with, check it. I would also buy a salt with a lower Alkalinity and just use the high Alk stuff at a later date when your tank starts consuming it. Adding corals to a tank with vastly different different levels to that they are accustomed can lead to acclimation hassle.
 
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What have you found to be the best things/methods to beat hair algae? (choose all that apply)

  • Hydrogen peroxide

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • Lawn Mower Blenny (or other fish)

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • Manual Removal

    Votes: 18 51.4%
  • Rock Scrubbing

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • Lowered Phosphates

    Votes: 7 20.0%
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    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Urchins

    Votes: 10 28.6%
  • Fluconazole

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO)

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • UV Sterilizer

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • Refugium

    Votes: 9 25.7%
  • Algae Scrubber

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Clean Up Crew

    Votes: 18 51.4%
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    Votes: 4 11.4%
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