Metronidazole

[Humblefish]

I want to feed metro and focus to my clowns. I have observed white stringy poop. Unfortunitely i didnt see any of this during the month i had them in QT. They have now been in DT for 3 weeks, i wanted to see if the poop continued to stay white and stringy and it has. I have metro and focus should arive this week. My question is if feeding metro has any effect on bio filter? My DT is only a few months old. Should i be concerned with ammonia spikes from the metro food? I run a small bag of carbon...

So long as you use Focus to bind the medication, it should have no impact on your biofilter. Even if a little does leach out, metro only targets anaerobic bacteria (I believe.)

Thanks a lot for this writeup on Metronidazole @Humblefish. I have a question, or perhaps correction, about this antibiotic. Whenever I chime in on these things my frame of reference is human use and disease so I certainly may not be aware of something that is effective in the hobby but isn't used or effective in humans. When I think of Metronidazole, I think of Giardia, Entomoeba, Trichomonas, Gardnerella vaginalis, Anerobes, and H. pylori. Metronidazole is used for/effective in treating certain intestinal parasitic infections, but not ones caused by worms as far as I know. As I've been reading R2R I've seen Metro suggested for internal worm infections many times by many people...but I've never known this drug to be used for killing or treating intestinal worm diseases. I've known it to be used for parasites that are protozoan. I REALLY enjoy reading and learning from all the posts that you and others make regarding fish disease, so thank you very much for this thread and all the others.

As an aside, from a practical standpoint, I can imagine it not making a big difference when treating fish because, as hobbyists, we don't have the luxury of knowing exactly what our sick fish is infected with...we just see its belly, poop, perhaps some wasting, and decide there could be an internal parasitic infection, then begin treating it with whatever options we have, so in that sense it might not exactly matter if the drug we're reaching for treats parasitic intestinal worms or parasitic protozoans...but if you had some reason to confidently suspect worms, then metro would not be an effective choice (again, as far as I know).

I guess I tend to (incorrectly) use the terms "internal parasites" & "intestinal worms" interchangeably. Metro targets internal flagellates, specifically diplomonads. The best example probably being Hexamita. For "true worms" the best solution is probably praziquantel, levamisole or fenbendazole. I have been meaning to rewrite many of the stickies as I gain a greater understanding/more experience.

 

[Maritimer]

... Which makes me feel good that I've been using General Cure (Metronidazole + Praziquantel) with Focus for treating white stringy poop.

Bases (at least some) covered!

~Bruce

 

[Lasse]

@Humblefish

I would prefer that you change worms to protozoan parasites and anaerobic bacteria according to what Metronidazole and its derivates will defeat. protozoans and anaerobic bacteria is single cells organism - with the word worms - we normally means multiple cells organism. as I know - there is not any effect on multiple cells organism by metronidazole in fish (or other organisms) as @Tft12 stated.

Back to the white pop - a thin white pop in certain freshwater fishes can be a sign of flagelate infection in the gut. it is one of the analytical tools you use. but it is not the only - it needs to be linked with a lethargic
behaviour, discolouring (dark), shyness and not eating to be sure that´s probably is a disease that metronidazole can treat in freshwater fishes. The white thin pop - that consist of intestinal mucosa - is not enough of indikation of protozoan infection by it self. I have seen the same white pop in fresh water fishes that have been starving for a while. If you follow the proper protocol for long distance shipping (as many exporting companies do) - it include a 2 - 4 days starving before shipment.

When handling with freshwater species as the genus Tropheus - lethargic behaviour and that they spitting out food is the first warning signal. It will be followed with dark colouration, shyness and after a while - white thin pop. The last stage in the Tropheus genus is swollen belly. African bloat. The Hole in the head in South American cichlids like the discus follow the same path with lethargic behaviour, shyness and dark colouration. They not eat either.

It should be dissolved in water. Not to be eaten. It works in the water for freshwater species cause it is fat soluble and enter the body through parts in contact with water there it is a thin construction of cells - like the gills. If I would test it for saltwater species - I would probably going down in dose compared with freshwater. Salt water fish drinks a lot. It will therefore be an oral distribution too for salt water species

I do not know about salt water species but one important indikation for protozoan parasites among freshwater species is that they do not eat!!!!! I would be very surprised if that not is valid for salt water species too.

I have not tested metronidazole for treatment of Brooklynella hostilis but if you can ensure its Brooklynella - at least I had try to use it. Try to find waterlife octozin at Google. It should be dissolved in water. Not to be eaten. It works in the water for freshwater species cause it is fat soluble and enter the body through parts there it is a thin construction of cells - like the gills. If I would test it - I would probably going down in dose. Salt water fish drinks a lot. It will therefore be an oral distribution too for salt water species.

Back again to thin white pop. This can be a sign of gut infektion but it could be a sign of whatever irritation of the mucosa of the intestine. You need to have other indications to. If the fish not eat or you saw it spitting out the food in the beginning - it is likely a protozoa infection. If the fish is eating like hell but not growing as it should - in late stage show up a razor thin shoulder - it is likely internal worms or other multi-cell organisms. But this white pop can also be a sign of not suitable food, other stressing factors and not really wellbeing.

I will not start any discussion about diseases analyse in this thread but I have to stress that I - in most case - do not rely on one indikation. Infection of cryptocaryon irritans can be an exception.

 

[infinite0180]

@Humblefish

I began feeding focus and metro. I mixed it up with dry pellets. I initially had been storing the medicated food in the fridge. I left it out over night though by mistake. Does the food even need to be stored in the fridge if used with dry pellet? I did add about a teaspoon of rodi when preparing it... should i remake the food or is it ok to store it at room temp?

 

[Humblefish]

I began feeding focus and metro. I mixed it up with dry pellets. I initially had been storing the medicated food in the fridge. I left it out over night though by mistake. Does the food even need to be stored in the fridge if used with dry pellet? I did add about a teaspoon of rodi when preparing it... should i remake the food or is it ok to store it at room temp?

Room temp is probably OK for medicated pellets; but I've gotten into the habit of always refrigerating it.

 

[infinite0180]

Room temp is probably OK for medicated pellets; but I've gotten into the habit of always refrigerating it.

Thanks!

 

[ReefWithCare]

Hi @Humblefish ,

When you mix metro and focus in food can you leave the mix in the food? I was planning on mixing frozen cubes of food by defrosting overnight in the fridge then mixing the medication. Usually a cube will last me 2-3 feedings. Is that something you can do or do you have to use the food as soon as it is mixed?

 

[Maritimer]

Not Humblefish, but I've had no trouble with keeping mixed food / medicine in the fridge for a day or three.

~Bruce

 

[Humblefish]

Not Humblefish, but I've had no trouble with keeping mixed food / medicine in the fridge for a day or three.

^^ Agree; although I personally don't like keeping seafood in the fridge past 48 hrs to avoid it becoming rancid.

 

[infinite0180]

^^ Agree; although I personally don't like keeping seafood in the fridge past 48 hrs to avoid it becoming rancid.

I would think pellets are ok for awhile longer right?

 

[Humblefish]

I would think pellets are ok for awhile longer right?

Yes

 

[RavenSF]

I have a P. Angulatus wrasse in QT that has white stringy poop. I've done two round of PraziPro and he still has the white poop. I cannot get him to eat pellets or any frozen foods soaked in Metro+ and Focus. He will eat the frozen food if it's not medicated. Can these fish be safely and effectively treated with Metro+ dosed directly into the water? I know wrasses can be sensitive.

 

[Rispa]

Has anyone tested if it's safe with corals?

 

[Lasse]

I have a P. Angulatus wrasse in QT that has white stringy poop. I've done two round of PraziPro and he still has the white poop. I cannot get him to eat pellets or any frozen foods soaked in Metro+ and Focus. He will eat the frozen food if it's not medicated. Can these fish be safely and effectively treated with Metro+ dosed directly into the water? I know wrasses can be sensitive.

If it still eat (and not spit out) I do not think it is a internal infection of flagellates. All my experiences with that include that fish does not eat if their digestive system is infected with flagellates or anything else that metro cure. However - all my experiences with this is connected with fresh water species - however I have a lot of experiences with it.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[RavenSF]

If it still eat (and not spit out) I do not think it is a internal infection of flagellates. All my experiences with that include that fish does not eat if their digestive system is infected with flagellates or anything else that metro cure. However - all my experiences with this is connected with fresh water species - however I have a lot of experiences with it.

Sincerely Lasse

He was eating but is very picky. He seems to be lethargic today. Hopefully he is more active tomorrow.

 

[Rispa]

I read anecdotally that it is safe for corals and anemone. I tried it last night and everything seems to be fine.

 

[Lasse]

I know of experiences in freshwater that the water can become cloudy sometimes when using certain medication with metronidazole. In freshwater - it is no problem - it will go away in a couple of days.

Normal indications of internal flagellates in some freshwater cichlid species include (often in this order) Shy, dark colouration, just taste the food- spit out, lethargic, do not eat, white thin pop, swelling belly, dead.

Scientist believe that the family Cichlidae from an evolutionary point of view belong to a cluster of closely related families - including the wrasses and damselfish. Usually called the suborder Labrodei.

Whit this - it is not total unbelievable that flagellate infections can hit even some saltwater species - but I do not know

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Daniel cahen]

If I can't obtain focus from.seachem in my country, what a product easily affordable can I use to bind metronidazole to frozen food?

 

[Daniel cahen]

Another question..if I treat with metro given with the food, will it eradicate all the parasites or maybe some eggs outside the fishes that will remain alive and later hatch and reinfect the fishes?or I have to aditionaly treat the whole tank water?

 

[Humblefish]

If I can't obtain focus from.seachem in my country, what a product easily affordable can I use to bind metronidazole to frozen food?

What country do you live in?