Microbacter purple

[collinnelson9]

Good after noon y’all, just saw brightwell just released microbacter purple. I see it will feed your corals while adding beneficial bacteria. Just wondering if anyone got there hands on it and see if there is any long term benefits down the road.

 

[pooootiqe]

BTW, it's easy to grow this stuff on your own. The left bottle is the control medium and the right bottle was the same simple DIY medium that was inoculated with 10mL of the contents of bottled PNSB. This is growth after two weeks.

Ya gonna spill the secret on that growth media or what? :face-blowing-a-kiss:

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Ya gonna spill the secret on that growth media or what? :face-blowing-a-kiss:

This is one of one, but also my first try. When I convince myself that it’s repeatable, and after ICP/AquaBiomics proves cool, I’ll share detailed info with a more appropriate medium.

But if you wanted to try, in 750 mL of distilled water, add 2.0 grams of yeast extract and 0.5 grams of NaCl (not table salt with iodine). You can use aquarium salt. Boil that down to 500mL, pour that into a sterile container, and inoculate with 10 mL of the purple juice of your choosing. Place under a light like you would phyto. If you can keep the room at 30C, that’ll help. Expect growth at the Day 10-12 mark. Expect to be able to harvest after Day 14.

 

[pooootiqe]

This is one of one, but also my first try. When I convince myself that it’s repeatable, and after ICP/AquaBiomics proves cool, I’ll share detailed info with a more appropriate medium.

But if you wanted to try, in 750 mL of distilled water, add 2.0 grams of yeast extract and 0.5 grams of NaCl (not table salt with iodine). You can use aquarium salt. Boil that down to 500mL, pour that into a sterile container, and inoculate with 10 mL of the purple juice of your choosing. Place under a light like you would phyto. If you can keep the room at 30C, that’ll help. Expect growth at the Day 10-12 mark. Expect to be able to harvest after Day 14.

brilliant! Thanks for sharing, hope you don’t get in trouble for this! Surprised that PNSB can stand their ground and proliferate when inoculated from a mixed culture.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

brilliant! Thanks for sharing, hope you don’t get in trouble for this! Surprised that PNSB can stand their ground and proliferate when inoculated from a mixed culture.

There would be no trouble. This is public domain data. Poke around here for more: https://bacdive.dsmz.de/strain/1822

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

inoculate with 10 mL of the purple juice of your choosing

Be sure to let the solution cool before inoculating.

 

[spicymikey]

Hi folks. Just stumbled across this excellent thread. Wanted to add my 2 cents. I have a mature 400-gal mixed reef aquarium and I have been using Hydrospace PNS Probio for a while with very good success. What does success mean to me? Control of inorganic nutrients NO3 and PO4, mainly PO4 and a generally healthy tank. It's a challenge for most of us without help. I found that 100ml of HS-PNS, 5% weekly water changes as a result of vacuuming the tank and sump bottoms, and 4 hrs. per night of Ozone via the skimmer, keeps the phosphates under 0.15ppm and my tank healthy and clear WITHOUT the need for GFO, etc.

But now I read about the new Brightwell Purple M and also this Micro-Lift Special Blend. Lots of passionate talk about these products, especially ML-SB. So, I am going to do my own testing. I bought two bottles of BW-P, and 2 bottles of ML-SB. I have a very stable tank with a consistent procedure for maintaining PO4. So, let's just see if they work better, worse, or about the same as the HS-PNS, for the same cost. I'll report back in a month.

Some thoughts up front from my initial observations.
1) Smell test: The HS-PNS and ML-SB both have this rotten odor. Smells like Hydrogen Sulfide among other things. ML-SB is the worst. BW-PM has no odor. I always took the odor to mean the bacteria was not being kept dormant. That makes sense if these bacteria can metabolize anaerobically in an anoxic environment. Hard to stop in a closed bottle. But interestingly, the BW-PM has no odor. Seems stable. How is that possible? I'd love to hear from @KennethWingerter since they had a role in producing the BW product. We could ask BW but we all know they'd offer no meaningful input, if any at all. I appreciate Kenneth's willingness to engage and discuss their products. One of the reasons I use it!

2) Color test: Clearly the ML-SB is much less opaque than the other two. It looks like dirty water, while the BW-PM and HS-SB are about the same color and very opaque. That in itself doesn't necessarily prove anything conclusive. The ML-SB has a higher percentage of the main bug for controlling PO4, based on HumbleFish analysis, so that got my attention. So, we'll see...

 

[spicymikey]

Hi! Owner-operator at Hydrospace here. I assure you that these are very different products.

PNS ProBio is a high-density PNSB (purple nonsulfur bacteria) product containing three PNSB species, namely Rhodopseudomonas palustris, Rhodospirillum rubrum and Rhodobacter sphaeroides. It's formulated primarily as a food and probiotic. Microbacter Purple M contains a broad variety of species including one PNSB, Rhodopseudomonas palustris; I know because we produce the PNSB for them. That product is formulated primarily for bioremediation (especially nutrient control).

We're excited about this collaboration and are confident that Purple M is going to be wildly successful. I can say with certainty that we absolutely are not competitors. Indeed, these products are very different in composition, with theirs being a diverse consortium and ours being dominated by PNSB. And IMHO that's exactly what this industry needs right now--a greater range of more specialized, high-quality options, and fewer cheap copycats. :) Hope that helps!

Hi Kenneth,

First of all, thank you for taking the time to discuss your product and offer insights. Its is very appreciated, and one of the reasons I use your PNS product as part of my daily regimen. I find it works well to manage my PO4 with no need for GFO, etc.

I am curious about what you said regarding BW-PM. Of course, BW offers no information on the contents of their products. Neither does Dr. Tims. For that reason I avoid them. But, you clearly stated that BW-PM contains Rhodopseudomonas palustris since you provide the bacteria to them. I'm surprised you could even reveal that without violating some NDA, but assuming it is true, can you help me understand which product might be better if the main goal is PO4 control and not necessarily coral feeding?

Also, I noticed the BW product has no odor indicating that this might be a very stable dormant bottle, vs yours which is clearly active and alive. Can you explain why and to what benefit? Thanks Kenneth!

 

[Sophie"s mom]

This is the competitor to the PNS ProBio Purple bottle. It does help feed coral and provide good PE for acropora. I am hoping it hits amazon too since PNS is expensive to keep as a subscription.

I looked on Amazon as well, but I found it at Bulk Reef Supply. I have a bottle being delivered next week.

 

[spicymikey]

This thread got spicy!

My thoughts:

- Based on the manufacturer's recommendations, the monthly costs of dosing ProBio, Special Blend, and MB Purple are wildly different. That's math that's worth a look.
- The marketing for PNS ProBio has changed as the product has evolved, it's a bit of a moving target, so I guess I'll need to sample another bottle.
- I don't know what "high-density" means, as lot-specific spectrophotometric analysis or viable plate count data has not been provided, nor do I know that that density is maintained lot over lot.
- The bottles of PNS ProBio and Special Blend that I tested were polycultures. Lots of different bugs in both bottles, and the data can be reviewed over on Humblefish.
- "Strains" are mentioned in this thread, but I think most of y'all mean species. AquaBiomics does not test down to the strain. Only species.
- If I remember correctly, Hydrospace obtained the rights of a specific strain of PNSB (was it B111?) for use in ProBio. Maybe there's legitimate value there, or maybe that's a marketing tool used for differentiation.
- Much like "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration....," these products have not been proven to help you be a better reefer. There is evidence that they may help, but doing nothing might help. Dosing NOPOX/vinegar/vodka might help. Water changes might help.
- If dosing bacteria makes you feel like you're doing something good for your tank, I say do it.

And as you might expect, those who received their free bottles of MB Purple are already touting the product's value. After a few weeks. Without sharing data. The bottle I bought from SWA will arrive (maybe) this week, and I'll get the sample sent out posthaste

This thread got spicy!

My thoughts:

- Based on the manufacturer's recommendations, the monthly costs of dosing ProBio, Special Blend, and MB Purple are wildly different. That's math that's worth a look.
- The marketing for PNS ProBio has changed as the product has evolved, it's a bit of a moving target, so I guess I'll need to sample another bottle.
- I don't know what "high-density" means, as lot-specific spectrophotometric analysis or viable plate count data has not been provided, nor do I know that that density is maintained lot over lot.
- The bottles of PNS ProBio and Special Blend that I tested were polycultures. Lots of different bugs in both bottles, and the data can be reviewed over on Humblefish.
- "Strains" are mentioned in this thread, but I think most of y'all mean species. AquaBiomics does not test down to the strain. Only species.
- If I remember correctly, Hydrospace obtained the rights of a specific strain of PNSB (was it B111?) for use in ProBio. Maybe there's legitimate value there, or maybe that's a marketing tool used for differentiation.
- Much like "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration....," these products have not been proven to help you be a better reefer. There is evidence that they may help, but doing nothing might help. Dosing NOPOX/vinegar/vodka might help. Water changes might help.
- If dosing bacteria makes you feel like you're doing something good for your tank, I say do it.

And as you might expect, those who received their free bottles of MB Purple are already touting the product's value. After a few weeks. Without sharing data. The bottle I bought from SWA will arrive (maybe) this week, and I'll get the sample sent out posthaste.

Yes claims of miracles are usually exaggerated and/or baseless. My water is "clearer"! My Dinos are "Gone"!

You mentioned you were going to send your bottle of Brightwell Purple out for analysis. That would be helpful to the rest of us. Did you ever do it? How did it compare to Hydrospace PNS and Microlift Special Blend? I use HS-PNS for the main purpose of managing PO4. It truly helps solve that problem. But I'm wondering if this new BW Purple might do as good a job or better. Thanks!

 

[pooootiqe]

This is one of one, but also my first try. When I convince myself that it’s repeatable, and after ICP/AquaBiomics proves cool, I’ll share detailed info with a more appropriate medium.

But if you wanted to try, in 750 mL of distilled water, add 2.0 grams of yeast extract and 0.5 grams of NaCl (not table salt with iodine). You can use aquarium salt. Boil that down to 500mL, pour that into a sterile container, and inoculate with 10 mL of the purple juice of your choosing. Place under a light like you would phyto. If you can keep the room at 30C, that’ll help. Expect growth at the Day 10-12 mark. Expect to be able to harvest after Day 14.

Quick follow-up question: do you keep the cap screwed on tight?

Got a bottle of Special Blend from amazon to play with!

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Quick follow-up question: do you keep the cap screwed on tight?

Got a bottle of Special Blend from amazon to play with!

Because the source bug juice was a combination of Purple, Special Blend, and ProBio, I don't know what product supplied the bug that's growing, but I am now culturing the three separately.

Cap on. Swirl or shake twice daily. If the container is rigid, burp when needed. Resist the urge to smell until you're ready to harvest.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Did you ever do it?

Yes. Awaiting results.

The ML-SB has a higher percentage of the main bug for controlling PO4, based on HumbleFish analysis, so that got my attention

That's a higher relative percentage, but OD600 testing suggests that you're still getting more of something per dose from ProBio than you are from Special Blend.

 

[spicymikey]

Yes. Awaiting results.

That's a higher relative percentage, but OD600 testing suggests that you're still getting more of something per dose from ProBio than you are from Special Blend.

Thanks for the update Telegraham. Regarding relative percentage. I suspect thats true just from the "color test". These percentages are of "active ingredients" not "weight by volume". If that bottle was 38% R-P bacteria it would be mud, of course. So, yea, no doubt the Special Blend is much more "watered down" even if its most active ingredient is the R-P bacteria I am after. I have no horse in the race, just want the most cost effective means of maintaining water quality.

As I mentioned yesterday, I bought a bottle of Special Blend and also the BW Purple. Best way to cut through the noise is test it yourself. I have methods and procedures now using PNS Probio that yield a consistent result. All I need is a week with each bottle to see what happens. PO4 will move quickly off its mark if any variables are changed. I'll report back.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

I suspect thats true just from the "color test". These percentages are of "active ingredients" not "weight by volume".

Kinda. From the results, the DNA sequences generated are compared against databases to identify the bugs in the sample, and the relative abundance of each identified bug is determined by counting the number of times its DNA sequence appears. The DNA found might be from live or dead bugs, so "active ingredients" isn't quite accurate. The ~22% of R. palustris noted in the bottle of ProBio I sampled may have been the only viable bug in that bottle, and it may now be what I'm growing in my basement. I won't know that until I send in an AquaBiomics test.

Looking forward to your results.

 

[pooootiqe]

The abundance distribution could be a bit more nuanced, like how efficient a certain nucleic acid extraction protocol is at breaking open a certain type of bacteria, or how many copies of 16S rRNA genes each bacteria have. Eli probably has taken all these into consideration tho :)

 

[spicymikey]

Kinda. From the results, the DNA sequences generated are compared against databases to identify the bugs in the sample, and the relative abundance of each identified bug is determined by counting the number of times its DNA sequence appears. The DNA found might be from live or dead bugs, so "active ingredients" isn't quite accurate. The ~22% of R. palustris noted in the bottle of ProBio I sampled may have been the only viable bug in that bottle, and it may now be what I'm growing in my basement. I won't know that until I send in an AquaBiomics test.

Looking forward to your results.

Makes sense. Thanks for teaching me a little bit about the science of this

 

[Zuluuz]

Here is what it looks like now. It's taken longer than last time but it still works on dinos faster than anything else I've used.

Still having good results with this? Just got a few patches of Dino’s popping up after cleaning my sandbed

 

[legionofdoon]

Still having good results with this? Just got a few patches of Dino’s popping up after cleaning my sandbed

Yes

 

[legionofdoon]

Pretty much gone

 

[Zuluuz]

Pretty much gone

I got some arriving Tuesday I’ll post my progress too