Better, less like sewage.
Give it more time. Mine took several weeks.
My only "concern" is that I didn't shake the bottle well enough. I've ordered two more bottles and will be sending in three samples from three different lots.
What an odd thing to say.
Just sounds a little ominous when I read it lol.
Thanks so much for sharing the detailed experiment. Do you dose 200ml/day indefinitely? I’m looking to control phosphates naturally but that’s basically 2 gallons a month at that dosing rateSo I've concluded my testing of Purple M.
To restate again, my goals of using PNS bacteria is to control phosphates biologically. It is not necessarily to feed the corals, although the corals seem a bit healthier with PNSB in the water. It is not to control dinos or cyano, because this a stable 4 year old tank, and although there is all that stuff in this tank in small amounts at times, it is rarely an issue. It is not to make the water clearer, I use Ozone at night to clear the water of organic pigments, manage Vibrio, and oxidize organic toxins released by corals. The main goal for this aquarium is to control PO4.
Here were the 3 products I tested back to back over the last month.
1) Hydrospace PNS Probio (my benchmark) is what I currently use to control my PO4 and keep it at 0.03-0.08ppm with 200ml per day dosage. To grow enough I use a procedure involving carbon dosing. No need to use GFO, LC, etc. Pure biological solution.
2) Special Blend was a product mentioned by others in this thread so i tried it. It did indeed work. However it did not seem to work as well as PNS Probio after a week of testing. I may have needed to dose a bit more for an equivalent amount of PNSB but I stopped after 7 days because I could not get passed the odor. It was so bad my wife could smell it half way across the house within minutes of opening and dosing the tank. Also, it seemed to cause the corals to react negatively a bit. Extra mucus created likely indicates irritation to the corals. To control PO4 I used the same 200ml per day for my 1500 liter (400gal) tank, so maybe I noticed negative reactions more than others who might use lower concentrations.
3) Purple M did not work at all at the recommended dose. At least I can say it didn't work any better than using regular "run of the mill" Heterotrophic bacteria like what is found in Dr. Tims WasteAway, BW Microbacter7, etc. So, I bought another 2 liters and doubled the dosing. Still nothing. I was suspicious at this point, so, to finish off the liter I dumped the remaining 700ml into the tank. The PO4 actually increased the next day! Maybe I had a bad batch and the bacteria was dead. Maybe they have PO4 in the solution to keep the bacteria viable. I can't be certain but if anyone else has different results from a controlled test I'd be interested to see your results. Phosphates should NOT go up with live bacteria dosing.
One other interesting observation...the bottles of Purple M had no odor. Smelled like a bottle of dormant Heterotrophic bacteria like MB7. That makes me suspicious since PNSB does not go dormant easily like Heterotrophs (Vibrio, Pseudomonas, Alteromonas, Bacillus, etc). Rhodopseudomonas-Palustris is versatile and can metabolize aerobically, anaerobically, autotrophically, and photosynthetically). So what bacteria is really in this bottle of Purple M? I don't know. One person on this thread did not want to reveal his results after sending it to Aquabiomics. But one thing I am fairly certain of is there seems to be some sort of coloring besides the pigments of the PNSB. I poured the solution onto a paper towel (see attached photo). It stained the towel bright pink. Worse still, after a month the stain was still there! I did the same thing with the PNS Probio and Special Blend. They stained the towel initially a bit but it faded quickly and the towel was mostly white again after a few weeks. This makes me think the pigment in the other two bottles are truly organic and directly related to the bacteria, while the Purple M might have some inorganic pigments resistant to break down by other bacteria in the air.
So bottom line for me: I will stay with Hydrospace PNS Probio. It is more money purchased in small doses, but I buy it by the gallon and that makes it about 40% cheaper. Also, it works! This tank is healthier and the corals seem better fed when filter feeding off this type of bacteria. Since these are PAO type bacteria it makes sense.
Hope this is helpful to others.
Yes that would be the procedures that work for me. I need to dose 200 mL per day every day. I can get away with about 100 ml a day if I do no ozone treatment at night. Ozone is great for water quality and a safeguard against pathogenic bacteria overtaking your tank. So if cost is the main limiting factor then I have proven I could get away with 1gal per month. You can buy this by the gallon for about $150.
let me add one more thing about daily dosing. Even though I am carbon dosing to grow bacteria you have to understand the Dynamics of what's going on at the bacterial level. Life is always at war with itself. Everything is competing with others that survive in the same space. People, animals on the Serengeti, and bacteria in our tanks. Pnsb bacteria has a huge disadvantage because it divides very slowly. Maybe every 6 hours. It's versatile but slow. Most heterotrophic bacteria divides magnitudes faster. The fastest growing bacteria in our tanks is the vibrio's. With sufficient Nitrate and dissolved organic carbon they can divide Within 15-20 minutes. As a result, they will outcompete most other bacteria's. Left unchecked they will be the dominant bacteria in your tank within days. The next fastest growing bacteria would probably be pseudomonas and bacillus. There's nothing wrong with any these bacteria, although some vibrio can be pathogenic with weak fish. The biggest problem with these bacteria is they are not very efficient at consuming phosphates. That's why we all have the annoying problem of our nitrates better managed than the phosphates. You can sort of affect that by carbon dosing but you're still consuming nitrates at a much faster rate than the phosphates and soon your nitrates are bottoming out at zero and the tank starts getting sick. Also the amount of (inefficient phosphate consuming) heterotrophic bacteria you would need to fully control phosphates can reach levels that in itself can become toxic and polluting to the tank. So it's just not a viable long-term solution in itself to carbon dose your problems away.
My observations are 100% in line with yours.So I've concluded my testing of Purple M.
To restate again, my goals of using PNS bacteria is to control phosphates biologically. It is not necessarily to feed the corals, although the corals seem a bit healthier with PNSB in the water. It is not to control dinos or cyano, because this a stable 4 year old tank, and although there is all that stuff in this tank in small amounts at times, it is rarely an issue. It is not to make the water clearer, I use Ozone at night to clear the water of organic pigments, manage Vibrio, and oxidize organic toxins released by corals. The main goal for this aquarium is to control PO4.
Here were the 3 products I tested back to back over the last month.
1) Hydrospace PNS Probio (my benchmark) is what I currently use to control my PO4 and keep it at 0.03-0.08ppm with 200ml per day dosage. To grow enough I use a procedure involving carbon dosing. No need to use GFO, LC, etc. Pure biological solution.
2) Special Blend was a product mentioned by others in this thread so i tried it. It did indeed work. However it did not seem to work as well as PNS Probio after a week of testing. I may have needed to dose a bit more for an equivalent amount of PNSB but I stopped after 7 days because I could not get passed the odor. It was so bad my wife could smell it half way across the house within minutes of opening and dosing the tank. Also, it seemed to cause the corals to react negatively a bit. Extra mucus created likely indicates irritation to the corals. To control PO4 I used the same 200ml per day for my 1500 liter (400gal) tank, so maybe I noticed negative reactions more than others who might use lower concentrations.
3) Purple M did not work at all at the recommended dose. At least I can say it didn't work any better than using regular "run of the mill" Heterotrophic bacteria like what is found in Dr. Tims WasteAway, BW Microbacter7, etc. So, I bought another 2 liters and doubled the dosing. Still nothing. I was suspicious at this point, so, to finish off the liter I dumped the remaining 700ml into the tank. The PO4 actually increased the next day! Maybe I had a bad batch and the bacteria was dead. Maybe they have PO4 in the solution to keep the bacteria viable. I can't be certain but if anyone else has different results from a controlled test I'd be interested to see your results. Phosphates should NOT go up with live bacteria dosing.
One other interesting observation...the bottles of Purple M had no odor. Smelled like a bottle of dormant Heterotrophic bacteria like MB7. That makes me suspicious since PNSB does not go dormant easily like Heterotrophs (Vibrio, Pseudomonas, Alteromonas, Bacillus, etc). Rhodopseudomonas-Palustris is versatile and can metabolize aerobically, anaerobically, autotrophically, and photosynthetically). So what bacteria is really in this bottle of Purple M? I don't know. One person on this thread did not want to reveal his results after sending it to Aquabiomics. But one thing I am fairly certain of is there seems to be some sort of coloring besides the pigments of the PNSB. I poured the solution onto a paper towel (see attached photo). It stained the towel bright pink. Worse still, after a month the stain was still there! I did the same thing with the PNS Probio and Special Blend. They stained the towel initially a bit but it faded quickly and the towel was mostly white again after a few weeks. This makes me think the pigment in the other two bottles are truly organic and directly related to the bacteria, while the Purple M might have some inorganic pigments resistant to break down by other bacteria in the air.
So bottom line for me: I will stay with Hydrospace PNS Probio. It is more money purchased in small doses, but I buy it by the gallon and that makes it about 40% cheaper. Also, it works! This tank is healthier and the corals seem better fed when filter feeding off this type of bacteria. Since these are PAO type bacteria it makes sense.
Hope this is helpful to others.
Completely understand. I run rowaphos and it is definitely more work than dosing bacteria. GFO also strips a ton of trace elements out, which never helps.
Thanks for this detailed response and your insights, it’s incredibly helpful. For now I’m just carbon dosing for nitrate and running rowaphos for phosphate but I’m finding it more and more difficult to manage phosphates over time.
Well I don't "turn off" the skimmer. I have a Reef Octopus 300INT skimmer that has a variable speed pump. I have it on a schedule to automatically turn down so it does not skim, but it is still on to oxygenate the water. My skimmer is critical to keeping the waters PH in that 8.1+ range. I dose all 200ml in the AM when I do my morning filter room "chores". The skimmer goes into low speed from 8am to 11am. This is enough time for the PNSB to settle in so it can start colonizing on the rock surfaces. Most of this bacteria will colonize and not remain in the water column. Thats a big advantage to Vibrio and other purely heterotrophic bugs. Those will mostly remain free swimming in the water looking for organics to consume. Another reason I run ozone at night to try to knock them back and give the slow dividing PNSB a chance to compete in the tank
Thank you so much for this review/breakdown... I'm having a mild Dino bloom in a 3.5 year old tank that is leaving me perplexed! We got MBPNSB at reefapalooza...at first i didn't realize it's a 1/4 cap/gallon...that's a lot of product. I did dose incorrectly at 1st , then stopped dosing all together, since I'm still having a Dino issue, I started researching the product all over again...and this is the best help I've found so far.So I've concluded my testing of Purple M.
To restate again, my goals of using PNS bacteria is to control phosphates biologically. It is not necessarily to feed the corals, although the corals seem a bit healthier with PNSB in the water. It is not to control dinos or cyano, because this a stable 4 year old tank, and although there is all that stuff in this tank in small amounts at times, it is rarely an issue. It is not to make the water clearer, I use Ozone at night to clear the water of organic pigments, manage Vibrio, and oxidize organic toxins released by corals. The main goal for this aquarium is to control PO4.
Here were the 3 products I tested back to back over the last month.
1) Hydrospace PNS Probio (my benchmark) is what I currently use to control my PO4 and keep it at 0.03-0.08ppm with 200ml per day dosage. To grow enough I use a procedure involving carbon dosing. No need to use GFO, LC, etc. Pure biological solution.
2) Special Blend was a product mentioned by others in this thread so i tried it. It did indeed work. However it did not seem to work as well as PNS Probio after a week of testing. I may have needed to dose a bit more for an equivalent amount of PNSB but I stopped after 7 days because I could not get passed the odor. It was so bad my wife could smell it half way across the house within minutes of opening and dosing the tank. Also, it seemed to cause the corals to react negatively a bit. Extra mucus created likely indicates irritation to the corals. To control PO4 I used the same 200ml per day for my 1500 liter (400gal) tank, so maybe I noticed negative reactions more than others who might use lower concentrations.
3) Purple M did not work at all at the recommended dose. At least I can say it didn't work any better than using regular "run of the mill" Heterotrophic bacteria like what is found in Dr. Tims WasteAway, BW Microbacter7, etc. So, I bought another 2 liters and doubled the dosing. Still nothing. I was suspicious at this point, so, to finish off the liter I dumped the remaining 700ml into the tank. The PO4 actually increased the next day! Maybe I had a bad batch and the bacteria was dead. Maybe they have PO4 in the solution to keep the bacteria viable. I can't be certain but if anyone else has different results from a controlled test I'd be interested to see your results. Phosphates should NOT go up with live bacteria dosing.
One other interesting observation...the bottles of Purple M had no odor. Smelled like a bottle of dormant Heterotrophic bacteria like MB7. That makes me suspicious since PNSB does not go dormant easily like Heterotrophs (Vibrio, Pseudomonas, Alteromonas, Bacillus, etc). Rhodopseudomonas-Palustris is versatile and can metabolize aerobically, anaerobically, autotrophically, and photosynthetically). So what bacteria is really in this bottle of Purple M? I don't know. One person on this thread did not want to reveal his results after sending it to Aquabiomics. But one thing I am fairly certain of is there seems to be some sort of coloring besides the pigments of the PNSB. I poured the solution onto a paper towel (see attached photo). It stained the towel bright pink. Worse still, after a month the stain was still there! I did the same thing with the PNS Probio and Special Blend. They stained the towel initially a bit but it faded quickly and the towel was mostly white again after a few weeks. This makes me think the pigment in the other two bottles are truly organic and directly related to the bacteria, while the Purple M might have some inorganic pigments resistant to break down by other bacteria in the air.
So bottom line for me: I will stay with Hydrospace PNS Probio. It is more money purchased in small doses, but I buy it by the gallon and that makes it about 40% cheaper. Also, it works! This tank is healthier and the corals seem better fed when filter feeding off this type of bacteria. Since these are PAO type bacteria it makes sense.
Hope this is helpful to others.
So I've concluded my testing of Purple M.
To restate again, my goals of using PNS bacteria is to control phosphates biologically. It is not necessarily to feed the corals, although the corals seem a bit healthier with PNSB in the water. It is not to control dinos or cyano, because this a stable 4 year old tank, and although there is all that stuff in this tank in small amounts at times, it is rarely an issue. It is not to make the water clearer, I use Ozone at night to clear the water of organic pigments, manage Vibrio, and oxidize organic toxins released by corals. The main goal for this aquarium is to control PO4.
Here were the 3 products I tested back to back over the last month.
1) Hydrospace PNS Probio (my benchmark) is what I currently use to control my PO4 and keep it at 0.03-0.08ppm with 200ml per day dosage. To grow enough I use a procedure involving carbon dosing. No need to use GFO, LC, etc. Pure biological solution.
2) Special Blend was a product mentioned by others in this thread so i tried it. It did indeed work. However it did not seem to work as well as PNS Probio after a week of testing. I may have needed to dose a bit more for an equivalent amount of PNSB but I stopped after 7 days because I could not get passed the odor. It was so bad my wife could smell it half way across the house within minutes of opening and dosing the tank. Also, it seemed to cause the corals to react negatively a bit. Extra mucus created likely indicates irritation to the corals. To control PO4 I used the same 200ml per day for my 1500 liter (400gal) tank, so maybe I noticed negative reactions more than others who might use lower concentrations.
3) Purple M did not work at all at the recommended dose. At least I can say it didn't work any better than using regular "run of the mill" Heterotrophic bacteria like what is found in Dr. Tims WasteAway, BW Microbacter7, etc. So, I bought another 2 liters and doubled the dosing. Still nothing. I was suspicious at this point, so, to finish off the liter I dumped the remaining 700ml into the tank. The PO4 actually increased the next day! Maybe I had a bad batch and the bacteria was dead. Maybe they have PO4 in the solution to keep the bacteria viable. I can't be certain but if anyone else has different results from a controlled test I'd be interested to see your results. Phosphates should NOT go up with live bacteria dosing.
One other interesting observation...the bottles of Purple M had no odor. Smelled like a bottle of dormant Heterotrophic bacteria like MB7. That makes me suspicious since PNSB does not go dormant easily like Heterotrophs (Vibrio, Pseudomonas, Alteromonas, Bacillus, etc). Rhodopseudomonas-Palustris is versatile and can metabolize aerobically, anaerobically, autotrophically, and photosynthetically). So what bacteria is really in this bottle of Purple M? I don't know. One person on this thread did not want to reveal his results after sending it to Aquabiomics. But one thing I am fairly certain of is there seems to be some sort of coloring besides the pigments of the PNSB. I poured the solution onto a paper towel (see attached photo). It stained the towel bright pink. Worse still, after a month the stain was still there! I did the same thing with the PNS Probio and Special Blend. They stained the towel initially a bit but it faded quickly and the towel was mostly white again after a few weeks. This makes me think the pigment in the other two bottles are truly organic and directly related to the bacteria, while the Purple M might have some inorganic pigments resistant to break down by other bacteria in the air.
So bottom line for me: I will stay with Hydrospace PNS Probio. It is more money purchased in small doses, but I buy it by the gallon and that makes it about 40% cheaper. Also, it works! This tank is healthier and the corals seem better fed when filter feeding off this type of bacteria. Since these are PAO type bacteria it makes sense.
Hope this is helpful to others.
Interesting that you report such significant change in Nitrates and phosphates. Also, not sure why the nutrients would start rising again if you are consistently dosing the same. You mentioned this is a new tank. Not sure how new. Days, weeks, months? There's a lot going in in the beginning with the biome. Also, if its a new tank you might be still adding, changing, etc. To do a good test you need NO variables other than the new product you are using. Otherwise, you can't be certain what is causing it.
Kind of off topic to this thread but honestly, I've never seen any of these type products have any meaningful effect on anything like that in my tank. Not even sure why it would help. Keep in mind all these organisms are normal in this environment. Unless it becomes a "plague" I would ignore it. Right now in my tank I can spot some dino, diatoms, cyano, aiptasia, asteria stars, etc. Are they causing my corals a problem? No. So I ignore them. All of these (with the exception of Aiptasia) will wax and wane naturally and coexist harmlessly. For Aiptasia I will try to keep a half dozen Peppermint shrimp in my tank to keep them under control.
