Mindstream (My personal disclosure)

[MnFish1]

I have supported Mindstream on several threads - and still support them. That said - I ordered my unit 8/21/19 and still have not received it (its now beyond the most recently promised 10 weeks). I don't want to start a debate or argument - but only what I have done..

1. I filed a report with my credit card (American Express) - requesting that they contact the merchant and request the merchandise.
2. American Express credited my account for the purchase amount - and said - once I get the item - or they get an explanation - they will re-charge my account.
3. If I dont get the merchandise - The credit will remain in my account.

@MindStream maybe can give an update in general for the rest of the people that are waiting their units.

Note - I'm not posting this requesting 'vendor feedback' - just saying what my credit cards dispute policy is. What I really want is the unit in/on my tank. The interesting thing is that the order itself isn't cancelled - and money is not taken back from the merchant (unless I eventually cancel the order)

 

[The Aquatic Arsenal]

I did see a thread the other day where a member had spoken to a co-founder of Mindstream. What the gist of the thread was that they had stopped taking orders in order to focus on production and catching up on their back orders. I guess they didn't expect so many orders right away. I am not a spokesperson for them lol

 

[MnFish1]

I did see a thread the other day where a member had spoken to a co-founder of Mindstream. What the gist of the thread was that they had stopped taking orders in order to focus on production and catching up on their back orders. I guess they didn't expect so many orders right away. I am not a spokesperson for them lol

Yep - I know - The most recent estimate was 10 weeks - its now 12 weeks. What prompted me to write this was to suggest that those people who are tired of waiting for their equipment have this as an option. On other threads it was suggested that you cant file a dispute about certain things - or there is a time limit - I was only showing that Its possible - and it takes the concern I had with 1000$ sitting in SAI's bank account. My strong hope is that I receive the merchandise (On Amex site - you can either request a credit - or ask Amex to contact them and receive the merchandise) - I was surprised that if you just want them to inquire - that they also credit your account.

 

[Joe Rice]

I'm suspicious of their explanation that they're just trying to catch up with demand. Unlike the Trident, customer satisfaction with Mindstreams that have shipped ain't so good - and my guess (and yes, it's just a guess) is that they're madly trying to make some design changes to address those issues as they quickly realized that it's unsustainable to ship a product that requires such a high level of customer support. Of course, the fact that they shipped it in such a state could be an indication that they were getting desperate and felt it was "do-or-die" time.

I've always shied away from companies that ask for prepayment to help fund development. Unfortunately in this case, every time someone claws back that payment, it makes it a little more likely that the company will go bust. Edit: just read that "money is not taken back from the vendor". This is not a criticism of @MnFish1 - I would have done the same thing in his shoes.

If I had ordered a Mindstream I'd be very concerned about their lack of communication here on R2R. They know people are getting disgruntled. How hard would it be to make a post once a week just to let people know they haven't disappeared?

 

[MnFish1]

I'm suspicious of their explanation that they're just trying to catch up with demand. Unlike the Trident, customer satisfaction with Mindstreams that have shipped ain't so good - and my guess (and yes, it's just a guess) is that they're madly trying to make some design changes to address those issues as they quickly realized that it's unsustainable to ship a product that requires such a high level of customer support. Of course, the fact that they shipped it in such a state could be an indication that they were getting desperate and felt it was "do-or-die" time.

I've always shied away from companies that ask for prepayment to help fund development. Unfortunately in this case, every time someone claws back that payment, it makes it a little more likely that the company will go bust. Edit: just read that "money is not taken back from the vendor". This is not a criticism of @MnFish1 - I would have done the same thing in his shoes.

If I had ordered a Mindstream I'd be very concerned about their lack of communication here on R2R. They know people are getting disgruntled. How hard would it be to make a post once a week just to let people know they haven't disappeared?

I can understand that they cant reply to every forum - and Like I said - I only asked AMEX to contact them to inquire - I didnt ask for a credit. That said - I also called 3 times - and emailed - with no response (thats the only reason I went this route).

EDIT - The other reason I even posted this is because I've been supporting (and again still do) Mindstream and I've gotten a couple of PM's about 'what I'm hearing/doing with my order - since a lot of the Mindstream threads are closed - I just wrote a general post. BTW - I think its entirely possible that they are having trouble with demand. I don't think there is anything nefarious here. I also communicated to Mindstream - that after 10 weeks - I might have to cancel - as I need some kind of monitoring equipment - so I've tried to keep them in the loop as well

 

[kzp]

I can understand that they cant reply to every forum - and Like I said - I only asked AMEX to contact them to inquire - I didnt ask for a credit. That said - I also called 3 times - and emailed - with no response (thats the only reason I went this route).

EDIT - The other reason I even posted this is because I've been supporting (and again still do) Mindstream and I've gotten a couple of PM's about 'what I'm hearing/doing with my order - since a lot of the Mindstream threads are closed - I just wrote a general post. BTW - I think its entirely possible that they are having trouble with demand. I don't think there is anything nefarious here. I also communicated to Mindstream - that after 10 weeks - I might have to cancel - as I need some kind of monitoring equipment - so I've tried to keep them in the loop as well

HI. Please read my other posts with respect to the MS. I am not as optimistic as you are. I do agree that it's very possible that they are struggling with a design change and are simply too embarrassed to tell people. That being said, their lack of communication with anyone who's shelled out 1000.00 is simply inexcusable and unacceptable. I despise doing business with a company who behaves in this manner toward its customers. But, I've put up with it this long (ordered my unit on 7/1/19) because I also want a monitoring unit so badly. I may also call my AmEX.

 

[MnFish1]

HI. Please read my other posts with respect to the MS. I am not as optimistic as you are. I do agree that it's very possible that they are struggling with a design change and are simply too embarrassed to tell people. That being said, their lack of communication with anyone who's shelled out 1000.00 is simply inexcusable and unacceptable. I despise doing business with a company who behaves in this manner toward its customers. But, I've put up with it this long (ordered my unit on 7/1/19) because I also want a monitoring unit so badly. I may also call my AmEX.

You can do it on the website. They ask you questions - it takes a couple minutes. I did find out - that at least for my Visa and Amex - there is no 'timeline' that a dispute has to be filed by.

 

[MnFish1]

You can do it on the website. They ask you questions - it takes a couple minutes. I did find out - that at least for my Visa and Amex - there is no 'timeline' that a dispute has to be filed by.

Just to make it clear - because I've gotten a couple questions - I do not recommend cancelling your Mindstream orders - I think they will 'pull through'. My comments were only to mention to those that are fretting about losing their money that they have options. I have not cancelled my order.

 

[kzp]

Just to make it clear - because I've gotten a couple questions - I do not recommend cancelling your Mindstream orders - I think they will 'pull through'. My comments were only to mention to those that are fretting about losing their money that they have options. I have not cancelled my order.

Hi MnFish1. I have a could of questions for you, if you don't mind. 1st, I just called AmEx, and they told me 60 days after charge is max dispute time. Can you please direct me on how you were told that you were protected by AmEx for bad charges? Second, do you still recommend not cancelling your order? Do you still think they will "pull through"? Your advice would be much appreciated.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi MnFish1. I have a could of questions for you, if you don't mind. 1st, I just called AmEx, and they told me 60 days after charge is max dispute time. Can you please direct me on how you were told that you were protected by AmEx for bad charges? Second, do you still recommend not cancelling your order? Do you still think they will "pull through"? Your advice would be much appreciated.

You asked this in PM - and I did response. But - to answer the question - I never recommended NOT cancelling an order - nor cancelling an order - (at least I didnt mean to). Obviously - I was not happy with the situation and sent an 'inquiry' through American Express - after being told 'by my card' - that there is no time limit to disputes. I was told the same thing by Visa - because we had a problem with a moving company - and I wouldn't know the results for >60 days. They told me there was no time limit to disputes.

So when I went through the process (which was almost 3 months after my original charge) - they said thanks - about 5 minuets later there was a provisional credit on my account for the full amount - which they said would be re-charged if the merchant followed through with an explanation/delivered the 'product'.

My understanding is that - for example if/when I receive the product I'm not satisfied - I can also return it - and re-dispute.

Everyone should do what they are comfortable with. if your card says you only have 60 days - I guess I would believe them? Long story short - I believe that I'm covered by my CC - no matter what the outcome - my favored outcome would be to receive the item - and have my card recharged.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi MnFish1. I have a could of questions for you, if you don't mind. 1st, I just called AmEx, and they told me 60 days after charge is max dispute time. Can you please direct me on how you were told that you were protected by AmEx for bad charges? Second, do you still recommend not cancelling your order? Do you still think they will "pull through"? Your advice would be much appreciated.

I think the paragraph(s) below explain why people are getting more than one answer. Note that the standard 'time period' is 60 days - after the charge....

This is from the FTC: (https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0221-billed-merchandise-you-never-received)

But what if… You placed an order with a catalog company and they charged your credit card immediately. The catalog company contacts you two weeks later and says the shipment will be delayed 60 days. You agree to the delay. The 60 days have passed, and you may be outside of the time to dispute the charges. Can you still dispute the charge?
Maybe. When a shipment is delayed, credit card issuers often are more generous when they calculate the time for allowing disputes, and may extend the 60-day period. To take advantage of this flexibility, include the following information in your dispute letter.

• Tell the credit card issuer if you didn’t expect to be charged for the merchandise before it was shipped. Some credit card issuers make an exception to the general industry rule against sellers charging before shipping if the seller tells you about its practice at the time of sale. If you’re sure the seller said nothing or wasn’t clear about its charge practice, the credit card issuer is more likely to allow the dispute.
• Tell the credit card issuer when delivery was expected. Some issuers use the expected date of delivery rather than the charge date as the start time for you to dispute charges. If you dispute the charge within a reasonable time after the expected delivery date passes, chances are good that the card issuer will honor the dispute. When you order or when a seller notifies you of delayed shipment, it’s important to keep a record of the promised shipment or delivery date. Include a copy of any documentation of the shipment or delivery date when disputing the charge with your card issuer.

 

[Eric R.]

Sorry for anyone who is still waiting on one of these. I'm in Vermont and my friend used to work for the company, and according them Step Ahead Innovations ran out of money and laid everyone off. Apparently another Vermonter drove by the business yesterday during what should have been business hours, and it was closed with missed package notices on the door.

 

[SandJ]

Maybe the Vermont Attorney General can help?

Get help with a consumer complaint - Office of the Vermont Attorney General

On product/service transactions, provides complaint mediation and consumer rights information. Get help with consumer problems and report scams. Small businesses help and resources.

ago.vermont.gov

 

[MnFish1]

Maybe the Vermont Attorney General can help?

Get help with a consumer complaint - Office of the Vermont Attorney General

On product/service transactions, provides complaint mediation and consumer rights information. Get help with consumer problems and report scams. Small businesses help and resources.

ago.vermont.gov

I would suggest your credit card company. But you might be right - if you live in Vermont

 

[SandJ]

I would suggest your credit card company. But you might be right - if you live in Vermont

I don’t think you have to live in Vermont to file
a complaint, you file where the company is based out of.
I am going through my credit card, but it is not guaranteed (but I feel pretty confident they will credit me). Maybe if enough people complain the company will refund the money without waiting 60 days for the credit card to investigate.

 

[MnFish1]

I don’t think you have to live in Vermont to file
a complaint, you file where the company is based out of.
I am going through my credit card, but it is not guaranteed (but I feel pretty confident they will credit me). Maybe if enough people complain the company will refund the money without waiting 60 days for the credit card to investigate.

There is an interesting discussion that was posted in another thread - about the possibility that Coralvue or another comapny might be interested in going forward with the monitor. Hopefully something will come of that

 

[VR28man]

There is an interesting discussion that was posted in another thread - about the possibility that Coralvue or another comapny might be interested in going forward with the monitor. Hopefully something will come of that

IMO, if the product was viable and not vaporware, I'm sure some other company will buy up the patents and the like.

 

[MnFish1]

IMO, if the product was viable and not vaporware, I'm sure some other company will buy up the patents and the like.

Right - the request was to contact [email protected] with comments

 

[VR28man]

Cool. I very well may do that. They are also in a position to put it out more affordably compared to the insane prices mindstream was asking.

 

[MnFish1]

Cool. I very well may do that. They are also in a position to put it out more affordably compared to the insane prices mindstream was asking.

You should - as I said in the other thread - I won't post personal email I've received - but - I would recom