Miracle mud without a refugium

[Rjramos]

No where on that container does it say “miracle” mud. If I remember correctly Ecosystem Aquarium Miracle Mud a product and system developed by Leng Sy, was out before any other mud was used as a refugium substrate. I have been using the original and patented “Miracle Mud “ since 1998, and still using it with great success. I use it precisely as stated on Ecosystem Aquarium site, sump size, flow through rate, and right amount of mud. What I don’t do is change out half as often as it states, I think every 2 years. I do grow macro algaes, started with caulerpas back then, and then came chaetomorpha, which doesn’t go asexual and doesn’t root into the mud. I find that my refugiums do contain large populations of amphipods, copepods, and even mysis shrimp. For this purpose, I know it works. But why stop there, the benefit of macro algaes to control nutrients is the main reason for a refugium imho.

 

[JoJosReef]

I just looked on the internet and found it.
I know for sure because I now remember the name Walt Smith.

I don't find this anymore. I used to dose the refugium booster. Great stuff. Now I use AquaForest Life Source. Also a mud from Fiji waters, but has some magnetic particles in it so you should mix it and pull out the magnetic bits with a strong magnet.

 

[*GAREEF*]

No where on that container does it say “miracle” mud. If I remember correctly Ecosystem Aquarium Miracle Mud a product and system developed by Leng Sy, was out before any other mud was used as a refugium substrate. I have been using the original and patented “Miracle Mud “ since 1998, and still using it with great success. I use it precisely as stated on Ecosystem Aquarium site, sump size, flow through rate, and right amount of mud. What I don’t do is change out half as often as it states, I think every 2 years. I do grow macro algaes, started with caulerpas back then, and then came chaetomorpha, which doesn’t go asexual and doesn’t root into the mud. I find that my refugiums do contain large populations of amphipods, copepods, and even mysis shrimp. For this purpose, I know it works. But why stop there, the benefit of macro algaes to control nutrients is the main reason for a refugium imho.

Your right. It’s been 17 years brain a little foggy.
I must have just associated the two, sorry.
I like to use corals as my main nutrient control.
Certain Macro algae can crash and nuke your tank in a minute. I know because I have experienced it many times along with clients I’ve had in the past.
I used Xenia in my 40 sump when I ran the mud.

 

[JoJosReef]

No where on that container does it say “miracle” mud. If I remember correctly Ecosystem Aquarium Miracle Mud a product and system developed by Leng Sy, was out before any other mud was used as a refugium substrate. I have been using the original and patented “Miracle Mud “ since 1998, and still using it with great success. I use it precisely as stated on Ecosystem Aquarium site, sump size, flow through rate, and right amount of mud. What I don’t do is change out half as often as it states, I think every 2 years. I do grow macro algaes, started with caulerpas back then, and then came chaetomorpha, which doesn’t go asexual and doesn’t root into the mud. I find that my refugiums do contain large populations of amphipods, copepods, and even mysis shrimp. For this purpose, I know it works. But why stop there, the benefit of macro algaes to control nutrients is the main reason for a refugium imho.

There may be some confusion between "Miracle Mud" which I understand as a mixture of components that contains no live organisms, and "Fiji Mud" which is mud dredged up from Fijian waters and contains quite a lot of live stuff as well as the typical minerals that is the basis for Miracle Mud.

Refugiums can be for multiple reasons. I'm making a display refugium to grow pretty macros and a cryptic refugium to grow sponges and fan worms. Nutrients control is an important part, but not the primary driver.

 

[JoJosReef]

Your right. It’s been 17 years brain a little foggy.
I must have just associated the two, sorry.
I like to use corals as my main nutrient control.
Certain Macro algae can crash and nuke your tank in a minute. I know because I have experienced it many times along with clients I’ve had in the past.
I used Xenia in my 40 sump when I ran the mud.

This can be true. I'm having trouble in my 10gal clown prison, which has two types of Codium, Halymenia "dragon's breath", Caulerpa cuppresoides, and Gracilaria hayi "pom pom Gracilaria". There is too much macro growth and I'm having a huge dino outbreak...

 

[Fish Fan]

There may be some confusion between "Miracle Mud" which I understand as a mixture of components that contains no live organisms, and "Fiji Mud" which is mud dredged up from Fijian waters and contains quite a lot of live stuff as well as the typical minerals that is the basis for Miracle Mud.

Refugiums can be for multiple reasons. I'm making a display refugium to grow pretty macros and a cryptic refugium to grow sponges and fan worms. Nutrients control is an important part, but not the primary driver.

Thank you for your reply!

Do you have any insight to if either of the products "works"?

EDIT: By that I mean the "miracle" vs the "Fiji" mud.

Thanks @JoJosReef !

 

[*GAREEF*]

This can be true. I'm having trouble in my 10gal clown prison, which has two types of Codium, Halymenia "dragon's breath", Caulerpa cuppresoides, and Gracilaria hayi "pom pom Gracilaria". There is too much macro growth and I'm having a huge dino outbreak...

Yup very common with keeping macro algae’s !

 

[JoJosReef]

Thank you for your reply!

Do you have an insight to if either of the products "works"?

Thanks @JoJosReef !

No, it's entirely speculative. My rationale is that it contains live bacteria and a bunch of "stuff" from the ocean. I'm fairly certain that included bristleworm eggs, because bristleworm babies show up after I've been dosing it, but that could be coincidental as well. Corals seem to respond favorably to "snowing" the tank with it. Could also be my coral growing rain dance that they like, though.

 

[JoJosReef]

Yup very common with keeping macro algae’s !

Other than cutting back the macros, any advice on bearing the dinos? I'll have to get chopping soon, but I was hoping to grow out the Halymenia a bit more for transfer to a new refugium...

 

[Fish Fan]

No, it's entirely speculative. My rationale is that it contains live bacteria and a bunch of "stuff" from the ocean. I'm fairly certain that included bristleworm eggs, because bristleworm babies show up after I've been dosing it, but that could be coincidental as well. Corals seem to respond favorably to "snowing" the tank with it. Could also be my coral growing rain dance that they like, though.

My take, as an aging reefer, and with a very dusty BS in Bio, I kind of thought that this "mud" was an aging fad. What do you think? I'd very much appreciate your help here!

 

[JoJosReef]

My take, as an aging reefer, and with a very dusty BS in Bio, I kind of thought that this "mud" was an aging fad. What do you think? I'd very much appreciate your help her

Some people swear by it, and @TangerineSpeedo uses Miracle Mud and has had a positive experience with it. If the goal is to provide macros (and corals) a substrate with beneficial minerals, i.e., fertilizer, I think the MM does the trick. If you want microbiome with it, the real reef mud is the ticket.

Then again, more "microbiome" could also just be a fad that isn't quite aging yet...

 

[Fish Fan]

Some people swear by it, and @TangerineSpeedo uses Miracle Mud and has had a positive experience with it. If the goal is to provide macros (and corals) a substrate with beneficial minerals, i.e., fertilizer, I think the MM does the trick. If you want microbiome with it, the real reef mud is the ticket.

Then again, more "microbiome" could also just be a fad that isn't quite aging yet...

Thank you! I'm considering a 150 DT with a 40 gallon "display fuge". I'd like to try to grow mangroves in that 40 gallon aquarium. I've never done this, but it's really intriguing to me, and I'm looking forward to trying. Thank you very much for your replies and help!

 

[JoJosReef]

Thank you! I'm considering a 150 DT with a 40 gallon "display fuge". I'd like to try to grow mangroves in that 40 gallon aquarium. I've never done this, but it's really intriguing to me, and I'm looking forward to trying. Thank you very much for your replies and help!

@Fish Styx has a mangrove fuge to die for, which I'm hoping to model on later this year. He'd be a much better reference as I haven't gotten there yet!

 

[Fish Fan]

@Fish Styx has a mangrove fuge to die for, which I'm hoping to model on later this year. He'd be a much better reference as I haven't gotten there yet!

I know that reefer! I will check out his build thread. Thanks @JoJosReef !

 

[JoJosReef]

I know that reefer! I will check out his build thread. Thanks @JoJosReef !

Happy to help! Especially when it's dragging in others to do the heavy lifting!

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I use the Miracle Mud brand, not the Fiji stuff like @JoJosReef. I decided to try it because I heard anecdotal evidence that it reverses HLLE or at least helps it. When I first started in saltwater I had never seen HLLE where I lived and all I would ever use was tap water. When I moved I started seeing it. I always felt it was something in the water or lack thereof.
I think MM has some elements that may be missing in the standard salt mixes, or that's the theory anyway. I just put it in a tray in the sump that has some flow through it. On one sump I have it in a nylon stocking type bag.

 

[Subsea]

No where on that container does it say “miracle” mud. If I remember correctly Ecosystem Aquarium Miracle Mud a product and system developed by Leng Sy, was out before any other mud was used as a refugium substrate. I have been using the original and patented “Miracle Mud “ since 1998, and still using it with great success. I use it precisely as stated on Ecosystem Aquarium site, sump size, flow through rate, and right amount of mud. What I don’t do is change out half as often as it states, I think every 2 years. I do grow macro algaes, started with caulerpas back then, and then came chaetomorpha, which doesn’t go asexual and doesn’t root into the mud. I find that my refugiums do contain large populations of amphipods, copepods, and even mysis shrimp. For this purpose, I know it works. But why stop there, the benefit of macro algaes to control nutrients is the main reason for a refugium imho.

I have had the same Leng Sy miracle mud for 25 years. I never replaced it. For biodiversity I focused on tune up kits from IndoPacific SeaFarm:

: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :

Indo-Pacific Sea Farms produces captive-bred marine life for healthier reef aquariums: invertebrates, detritivores, live sand, snail grazers, amphipods, beneficial worms, macro algae, plankton, corals, coral food and beneficial bacteria.

ipsf.com

 

[*GAREEF*]

Other than cutting back the macros, any advice on bearing the dinos? I'll have to get chopping soon, but I was hoping to grow out the Halymenia a bit more for transfer to a new refugium...

For Dino’s it depends on what type but all treatments revolve around the same first step.
Nitrates 10-15 phosphate 0.10 - 0.15
Then depending on what strain you have you can increase the speed of eliminating it with adding a few other steps. But until you have your nitrate and phosphate balanced you you’ll just keep getting it once you have it.
Here’s some of my Xenia that had Walt smiths Fiji mud in the system.

 

[JoJosReef]

For Dino’s it depends on what type but all treatments revolve around the same first step.
Nitrates 10-15 phosphate 0.10 - 0.15
Then depending on what strain you have you can increase the speed of eliminating it with adding a few other steps. But until you have your nitrate and phosphate balanced you you’ll just keep getting it once you have it.
Here’s some of my Xenia that had Walt smiths Fiji mud in the system.

That stuff grows and grows.

 

[*GAREEF*]

That stuff grows and grows.

Started from the size of a quarter lol
And that wasn’t even half of it.
I was growing it for a molecular biologist at Augusta medical research lab university. He bought it all off me.