Monti bleaching

[Bleigh]

Do you have a media rack in your biocube? Or where is the chemipure bag.

It’s down in the bio balls. I have the ceramic balls, not the ones that came with it.

 

[Bleigh]

Yes, straight sodium carbonate or bicarbonate from BRS or anywhere else... That's either really expensive sodium bicarbonate, or sodium bicarbonate with boron, which is not a good thing.

I’ll add that to my shopping list.

 

[Bleigh]

As suspected - change in water. Add carbon to sump. Should help a little

Thank you. The eater tests 0 for phosphates out of the rodi filter. But the tds meter is going on my shopping list for tomorrow too.

 

[Hemmdog]

I’ll add that to my shopping list.

If your doing esv you won’t need that.

It’s going to be harder to get full use of the chemipure if it’s passive like that. Hmm I’ll try to think of something. I have a intank media rack for biocube 32 I could send you but I’m not sure if your old school one is the same dimensions.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you. The eater tests 0 for phosphates out of the rodi filter. But the tds meter is going on my shopping list for tomorrow too.

While awaiting your meter, see if you can get a nearby local club member or LFS to test TDS for you and any other parameter checks such as Phos

 

[Bleigh]

If your doing esv you won’t need that.

It’s going to be harder to get full use of the chemipure if it’s passive like that. Hmm I’ll try to think of something. I have a intank media rack for biocube 32 I could send you but I’m not sure if your old school one is the same dimensions.

The old one was full of junk. I suspect it’s life had ended sooner than the container had predicted. That may be why the phosphates suddenly started increasing. The first bag I had wasn’t nearly as disgusting as the second bag. This will be the third refresh of Chemi pure the tank has had. Hopefully the phosphates start coming down. The esv is an entire salt mix right? Instead of the Red Sea?

 

[Hemmdog]

The old one was full of junk. I suspect it’s life had ended sooner than the container had predicted. That may be why the phosphates suddenly started increasing. The first bag I had wasn’t nearly as disgusting as the second bag. This will be the third refresh of Chemi pure the tank has had. Hopefully the phosphates start coming down. The esv is an entire salt mix right? Instead of the Red Sea?

I see. Rinse them out super good before you add them too. Esv makes salt but most people just use their 2 part. I use tropic marin salt. I use to use RSCP.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I have no problem moving it. But the Christmas tree Monti doesn’t look great either. That’s super recent that it started look not so great. It’s in a normal orientation. I tried to glue the red one so it stuck out from the wall, but I couldn’t get it to stay. I got frustrated and tried gluing it that way thinking it just wasn’t going to stick to the glue, then to my surprise, it did stay.

Nitrate: 25 ppm
Phosphate: .14 ppm (that’s the highest it’s even been, by about double. That surprised me.)
Calcium: 410ppm
Kh: 6
Magnesium: 1300 ppm
Ph: 8.1-8.2
Salinity: 1.025

So a few things are out of wack. I’d think the phosphates would be coming down not going up. I put in a new Chemi pure elite bag today too.

I could def check out a par meter. I’m letting the water mix for about 2 hours, like the bucket says, but there might be better ways to do it.

Btw, @danariddle, I was able to listen to you talk about lighting and par at the Atlanta reef convention! I took several pictures of your slides. I learned a lot!

There were some impressive photos coming out of the UK of Montis' colors (greens/oranges) improving when magnesium was increased to 1500. Not sure if testing for potassium is necessary. I do (Red Sea) and it is stable at around 400, but you never know until you test.
Agreed, good shops in Charlotte. Porina Ratt took me to two LFS last presentation I made there. They should be able give you some reference points for you to compare.
Glad you enjoyed the Atlanta presentation. It was frustrating for me given the microphone issues. I think I remember you - front row on my right?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Bleigh, do you know what salt mix your LFS was using? With your recent test showing ALK at 6 dKh, and the fact that the salt you are using now mixes to 11-12 dKh, I am wondering if you are having ALK stability problems. This would also explain why you are seeing this since you increased your water change schedule.

That is a big ALK difference between your tank water and your new water. Something isn't adding up. If you are changing 10-20% of your water every other day using that salt, your ALK shouldn't be that low.

 

[ScottB]

I agree with with @IslandLifeReef with strong conviction.

dkh at 6 is quite low if the salinity is 1.024 to 1.026. Are you testing your new mix with a trusted refractometer? (Not a swing arm hydrometer)

That RS Pro mixes at 12. That monti was doing fine before the new mix. The new mix "should" be mixing around 12 dkh. Changes in alkalinity are stressful to SPS especially, IME.

Therefore I'd suggest testing alkalinity in your tank and comparing that to your new mix. The absolute value is not critical (I run everything around 8.5, but whatever works) but the CHANGE in the measure is important and must be minimized.

I believe the RS Blue bucket mixes much lower alkalinity.. like 7-8. Much closer to the reading you provided.

 

[Bleigh]

There were some impressive photos coming out of the UK of Montis' colors (greens/oranges) improving when magnesium was increased to 1500. Not sure if testing for potassium is necessary. I do (Red Sea) and it is stable at around 400, but you never know until you test.
Agreed, good shops in Charlotte. Porina Ratt took me to two LFS last presentation I made there. They should be able give you some reference points for you to compare.
Glad you enjoyed the Atlanta presentation. It was frustrating for me given the microphone issues. I think I remember you - front row on my right?

I imagine that was frustrating. Honestly, I had totally forgotten about the microphone messing up like that until just now. And yep! Front row. Right next to the booth.

I’ll have to work on bringing the magnesium up some then.

Do you think I should change the monti’s orientation? I’ll post a picture of my Christmas tree one when the lights come on. Since it’s suddenly started looking off, I have to imagine the orientation isn’t too much of a factor. But I may be wrong.

 

[Bleigh]

@Bleigh, do you know what salt mix your LFS was using? With your recent test showing ALK at 6 dKh, and the fact that the salt you are using now mixes to 11-12 dKh, I am wondering if you are having ALK stability problems. This would also explain why you are seeing this since you increased your water change schedule.

That is a big ALK difference between your tank water and your new water. Something isn't adding up. If you are changing 10-20% of your water every other day using that salt, your ALK shouldn't be that low.

My alk was close to 6-7 before I switched to my own water. You can see that I’ve hovered between 5.5 and 6.5 for months now. The reading of 6 was right after I did a water change. When I do my change tomorrow, I’ll test it both before and after to see if it’s varying wildly before and after. If so, then it’s pulling the alk out ridiculously fast. And I am going to have to set up a continuous doser of some sort.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Bleigh- no matter what changes you make, bear in mind, nothing goes fast in saltwater, Do it slowly and gradually.
Chasing numbers IMO is the #1 killer mistake in reefing. Stable is better than High or Low.

 

[Bleigh]

I agree with with @IslandLifeReef with strong conviction.

dkh at 6 is quite low if the salinity is 1.024 to 1.026. Are you testing your new mix with a trusted refractometer? (Not a swing arm hydrometer)

That RS Pro mixes at 12. That monti was doing fine before the new mix. The new mix "should" be mixing around 12 dkh. Changes in alkalinity are stressful to SPS especially, IME.

Therefore I'd suggest testing alkalinity in your tank and comparing that to your new mix. The absolute value is not critical (I run everything around 8.5, but whatever works) but the CHANGE in the measure is important and must be minimized.

I believe the RS Blue bucket mixes much lower alkalinity.. like 7-8. Much closer to the reading you provided.

Yep. I have a refractometer. I’ll test with my 1.035 test standard to make sure it’s still spot on.

You’re right about the bucket. It says it mixes at 11-12 dkh. I’ll test the alk in my freshly made water today to see if it’s actually mixing that high. If it is, something has to be pulling it out super fast. Most of my corals are growing like crazy. I’m in the process of upgrading to a cube twice the size of my biocube +sump. I wonder if it’s worth setting up an alkalinity doser in the biocube with this other tank nearly done. *taps fingers*

 

[xiholdtruex]

Do not chase numbers as is stated above, If all your other corals are healthy do not change you take for 1 small frag or coral it can crash your tank. Alotof us make the mistake if one coral looks bad to fix things and dont realize that the rest are fine and that that specific coral just will not work in our tank even if we have several different strains of it that do

 

[Bleigh]

Bleigh- no matter what changes you make, bear in mind, nothing goes fast in saltwater, Do it slowly and gradually.
Chasing numbers IMO is the #1 killer mistake in reefing. Stable is better than High or Low.

Thanks! Def slower and gradual is better. I am flummoxed about the alk now. If my water is mixing that around 11-12, it has got to be shocking to have that sudden increase in alk with the water changes - even if it’s just for a few seconds until the new water mixes with the old water. I could add new water more gradually to reduce that. Secondly, I can’t believe how quickly the alk has to be getting sucked up to have not increased anymore since I started doing more frequent water changes to get the nitrates down. Is it a Kalkwasser that people use for alkalinity or something else? I’ll start researching that today. If nothing else, I’ll def need one for the bigger tank if it’s an issue for the smaller one.

 

[ScottB]

Assuming you have a lot of stony corals, a two-part doser is such a pleasure to have. My 2 APEXs dose 300ml of ESV two part evenly over a 24 hour period. I would not be happy dumping that much alkalinity manually every day.

And woohoo on doubling down with the water volume upgrade! Few things are more fun than that. Enjoy.

 

[Bleigh]

Do not chase numbers as is stated above, If all your other corals are healthy do not change you take for 1 small frag or coral it can crash your tank. Alotof us make the mistake if one coral looks bad to fix things and dont realize that the rest are fine and that that specific coral just will not work in our tank even if we have several different strains of it that do

Good point. All the rest look amazing. I guess I was just concerned that it might be like how miners took the canary in a cage down with them. If the canary died, it was a warning sign that things were turning unhealthy. If the monti’s aren’t looking great, could it be a warning sign or could it just be that the monti’s don’t like my tank?

 

[Bleigh]

Assuming you have a lot of stony corals, a two-part doser is such a pleasure to have. My 2 APEXs dose 300ml of ESV two part evenly over a 24 hour period. I would not be happy dumping that much alkalinity manually every day.

And woohoo on doubling down with the water volume upgrade! Few things are more fun than that. Enjoy.

Lol. Yeah. That would be a headache. How big is your tank?

And yes, this is just my first upgrade. I just moved my office out of the front room so that I can put a several hundred gallon tank on there. I wanted to have some experience with something other than the aio biocube before I do that though. Figure out what things I do and don’t like before I make an ever larger more major investment and regret the choices I’ve made.

 

[xiholdtruex]

Good point. All the rest look amazing. I guess I was just concerned that it might be like how miners took the canary in a cage down with them. If the canary died, it was a warning sign that things were turning unhealthy. If the monti’s aren’t looking great, could it be a warning sign or could it just be that the monti’s don’t like my tank?

How long has the monti been in the tank?