Moorish Idol sick, is Tri Sulfa safe with Copper?

[EmptyWallet]

Hi folks, I'm currently treating a Moorish Idol in QT with Cupramine. He seems to have developed a secondary bacterial/fungal issue and my LFS (Australia) recommended Tri Sulfa (label photo attached). I can' find any info. on whether it' safe to use with Copper. Does anyone know? Thanks!

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[EmptyWallet]

Looks like i got Triple Sulfa is it safe to use with Cupramine? Seachem say most antibiotics are safe with Cupramine, some threads here say all good if you feed it as opposed to treat water, this link says don't use with Copper

- http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#sulfa

but is probably referring too treating the water?

Thanks

 

[Big G]

@Humblefish

 

[Humblefish]

That combination of sulfa drugs is safe to use with copper. Just increase gas exchange to compensate for O2 depletion. And don’t be surprised if appetite suppression occurs.

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks so much! Appetite supression sigh, I only jut got him eating again, Idols really are best left in the Ocean. I can get some kanaplex on ebay, is that a better option for fin rot (or some sort of growth from white spot on fins looks like giant swollen white spots) and more likely to reduce appetite supression issues?

 

[Maritimer]

If you could get hold of Kanaplex, Metroplex and Furan-2, that hits a pretty broad spectrum of bacterial ills.

~Bruce

 

[Humblefish]

If you could get hold of Kanaplex, Metroplex and Furan-2, that hits a pretty broad spectrum of bacterial ills.

^^ Agree; but if the infection is bad start with Tri Sulfa (since you already have that on hand), and switch over to the above when it comes in. Do a large WC and run carbon for 24 hrs before making the switch.

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks heaps for the advice guys. I just ordered Metroplex + KanaPlex + Focus (to bind to food), paid over $100 for the 3 - we call that "Australia Tax" where you pay at least double US prices for things. Anyhow they are a few days away in the mail. I'm reluctant to run carbon as I just got my CopperLevels right and still fighting off whitespot. Can I soak his food in Tri Sulfa now (as opposed to medicating the water column) to avoid running carbon, then switch to Metro + Kana + Focus (assume you can add them all together at once into the same food) when they come in OR am I better off just waiting for the Seachem arsenal to come in. I'm no expert in fish disease clearly, but my guess is the infection isn't too bad right now, just a few spots on the fins that look like whitespot on steroids, + the very ends of his back fins look like they are starting to erode. If the condition appears to worsen, i'll start the Tri Sulfa straight away. It's ok to put Tri Sulfa in the food yeah as opposed to the water column?

 

[Humblefish]

It's OK to food soak Tri Sulfa, but that strategy will be far less effective than dosing the water for treating external infections. I'm worried this infection could get out of hand by the time Metroplex + Kanaplex arrives.

You would probably be fine just doing a 50% water change before switching antibiotics. Just make sure to dose copper into any replacement water before adding it to the QT (to ensure therapeutic levels remain constant.)

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks Humblefish! I see now why you recommend small QT's in your Do/Don't article, I'm running 400 litres so a 50% water change is no small feat . Oh well, I'm committed to rescuing this little bugger, I just hope he appreciates it - "I didn't ask to be taken from the Ocean you Jerk" he says lol...

Ok so the plan is (just to make sure I haven't got confused);

* Treat the water with Tri Sulfa now (which is safe with 0.5 copper) for 3 to 4 days until the Metro/Kana/Focus arrives, fed normally and hope he keeps eating

* Do a 50% water change (and check replacement water is also 0.5 copper, matches temp/PH/salinity etc.)

* Treat the food itself then with Metro/Kana/Focus once it arrives for ?? days (until signs of infection have gone or for 1 full week/whatever instructions are)

If he stops eating altogether do you recommend I abandon the treatment to get him feeding again as the priority, or is the infection more dangerous than not eating. Being a Moorish Idol I here sometimes once they stop eating, the never start again. Mine does seem very tough with a strong appetite though.

Again really appreciate the advice. Most LFS people are next to useless and I find this forum amazing to be able to get direct advise from 'expert veterans'

 

[Humblefish]

* Treat the food itself then with Metro/Kana/Focus once it arrives for ?? days (until signs of infection have gone or for 1 full week/whatever instructions are)

I wouldn't food soak in this situation, because a MI is a high metabolism species and he will be less likely to eat medicated food. Soaking vitamins in his food (whilst treating with ABX) would be a more useful strategy: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/vitamins-herbal-remedies.304287/

If he stops eating altogether do you recommend I abandon the treatment to get him feeding again as the priority, or is the infection more dangerous than not eating. Being a Moorish Idol I here sometimes once they stop eating, the never start again. Mine does seem very tough with a strong appetite though.

As you noted, if a MI stops eating and doesn't resume after a few days that is usually a death sentence. So, in this situation I would abandon treatment if he stops eating completely.

 

[EmptyWallet]

THANKS!!!

 

[EmptyWallet]

Hi Folks,

24hrs in to the Triple Sulfa treatment. He threw up his breakfast yesterday about 1hr after i dosed the medicine and again his dinner. But this morning he is keeping it down which is a great sign.

I finally have a decent photo to show, assuming the 'fin rot / bacterial issue' will be resolved, I'm worried about the 'brown lines' that are appearing on his body (on the yellow part) is this bacterial as well? He has it on the other side now too which has started even with the water under antibacterial treatment ???

 

[EmptyWallet]

The picture not as a thumbnail incase zooming in loses quality on my phone the pic quality is poor.

 

[EmptyWallet]

@4FordFamily

Hey buddy, have you seen these brown/black lines on any of your Idols before? (pics above)

What is your preferred anti bacterial medicine for Idols?

Thanks heaps,

Andrew

 

[4FordFamily]

@4FordFamily

Hey buddy, have you seen these brown/black lines on any of your Idols before? (pics above)

What is your preferred anti bacterial medicine for Idols?

Thanks heaps,

Andrew

Hey Andrew, I’ve not seen that before. I’ve treated my idols with the “trifecta” a couple times with good luck — kanaplex, metroplex, and furan 2 make up what we call the trifecta.

Not sure if they’re available where you are however

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks for the feedback, a bit of a worry if you've never seen it before . Only 1 way to get that stuff here a clever guy on eBay who must have imported in bulk from the U.S cost me $150 to get the 5g metro + 5G Pana + Furan + focus. Should come in a few days. Do you put the trifecta into food or treat the water?

 

[Big G]

The "trifecta" of Metro + Kanaplex + Furan2 is dosed into the water column. Most antibiotics are best absorbed through the skin.
Focus is most commonly used to bind Metro + Focus + food, for internal parasites.

 

[4FordFamily]

The "trifecta" of Metro + Kanaplex + Furan2 is dosed into the water column. Most antibiotics are best absorbed through the skin.
Focus is most commonly used to bind Metro + Focus + food, for internal parasites.

100% agree.

That price is salty, pun intended!

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks guys! Yeah I'll stock up now from the US so I don' get ripped off for future fishes. How long does it take to work on the fish - a few days? Does 1 dose usually work (I'm gonna need a lot to dose the water column with 225 litre QT), might be cheaper to buy a smaller QT!