Copper

[Jay Hemdal]

My only question is that I thought ich needed copper over 14-30 days to eradicate

Could this, which is over 11 days eradicate the ich?

I'm pretty sure this product is ionic copper. The copper we typically use in the US is amine-chelated copper and it is less toxic tot he fish, but requires a longer treatment time - 30 days. Ionic copper is more toxic, so you need to use shorter treatment times. However, when I used to ionic copper, I would still go 14 days beyond the date that the last symptoms were seen. You need to follow the instructions for this product since it is blended with formalin and I don't know the copper dose they are using.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I'm pretty sure this product is ionic copper. The copper we typically use in the US is amine-chelated copper and it is less toxic tot he fish, but requires a longer treatment time - 30 days. Ionic copper is more toxic, so you need to use shorter treatment times. However, when I used to ionic copper, I would still go 14 days beyond the date that the last symptoms were seen. You need to follow the instructions for this product since it is blended with formalin and I don't know the copper dose they are using.

Jay

Ok makes sense, thanks Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I'm pretty sure this product is ionic copper. The copper we typically use in the US is amine-chelated copper and it is less toxic tot he fish, but requires a longer treatment time - 30 days. Ionic copper is more toxic, so you need to use shorter treatment times. However, when I used to ionic copper, I would still go 14 days beyond the date that the last symptoms were seen. You need to follow the instructions for this product since it is blended with formalin and I don't know the copper dose they are using.

Jay

Hey

Day 5 of the treatment and the ich seems to be off the fish (not sure if that's it going into the reproduction stage but they are definitely decreasing in numbers as of the last 2 days)

I also am 99% sure that they have flukes also. The main indicators are that the clown has about 3 long white marks on parts of its body, and my past clown had white stringy poop, not sure if the current clown does though

Prazipro is quite expensive here but I could potentially get general cure, would that be sufficient?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey

Day 5 of the treatment and the ich seems to be off the fish (not sure if that's it going into the reproduction stage but they are definitely decreasing in numbers as of the last 2 days)

I also am 99% sure that they have flukes also. The main indicators are that the clown has about 3 long white marks on parts of its body, and my past clown had white stringy poop, not sure if the current clown does though

Prazipro is quite expensive here but I could potentially get general cure, would that be sufficient?

General Cure is Praziquantel and Metronidazole. It is effective against flukes, but you need to change the dose timing to once every 8 days, not once every 48 hours as they suggest. This is in order to try and break the life cycle of any egg laying flukes.

That said, I generally do NOT like to treat for flukes and use copper at the same time. It can be done, but it increases the overall stress on the fish. Protozoans, like ich, kill fish faster than flukes do, so I usually opt to treat with copper first and then run prazi or GC. Still, if you think the fish have a serious fluke infection, you might need to run both treatments at the same time.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

General Cure is Praziquantel and Metronidazole. It is effective against flukes, but you need to change the dose timing to once every 8 days, not once every 48 hours as they suggest. This is in order to try and break the life cycle of any egg laying flukes.

That said, I generally do NOT like to treat for flukes and use copper at the same time. It can be done, but it increases the overall stress on the fish. Protozoans, like ich, kill fish faster than flukes do, so I usually opt to treat with copper first and then run prazi or GC. Still, if you think the fish have a serious fluke infection, you might need to run both treatments at the same time.

Jay

Ok thanks

Ich seems to have reapeared on the clownfish, how many days into copper treatment do you usually see the ich disappear?

 

[Brad Coughlan]

General Cure is Praziquantel and Metronidazole. It is effective against flukes, but you need to change the dose timing to once every 8 days, not once every 48 hours as they suggest. This is in order to try and break the life cycle of any egg laying flukes.

That said, I generally do NOT like to treat for flukes and use copper at the same time. It can be done, but it increases the overall stress on the fish. Protozoans, like ich, kill fish faster than flukes do, so I usually opt to treat with copper first and then run prazi or GC. Still, if you think the fish have a serious fluke infection, you might need to run both treatments at the same time.

Jay

I managed to get some decent shots of the parasites when I filmed it through a hole on one of the pots I put in the QT

I was potentially thinking maybe it's velvet? Then again, these would probably be dead by now if it's velvet since whatever it is was introduced over a month ago

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok thanks

Ich seems to have reapeared on the clownfish, how many days into copper treatment do you usually see the ich disappear?

Copper usually takes at least 3 days, more often 5, to stop a protozoans infection.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I managed to get some decent shots of the parasites when I filmed it through a hole on one of the pots I put in the QT

I was potentially thinking maybe it's velvet? Then again, these would probably be dead by now if it's velvet since whatever it is was introduced over a month ago

Velvet usually just shows as rapid breathing. I see a lot of mucus here. that can be "end stage ich" or it could be Brooklynella. Trouble is, copper does not work well against Brooklynella.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Velvet usually just shows as rapid breathing. I see a lot of mucus here. that can be "end stage ich" or it could be Brooklynella. Trouble is, copper does not work well against Brooklynella.

Jay

I have considered brooklynella a few times, but the reason why I think it isn't is because the royal gramma showed signs and died before any of the clowns

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Copper usually takes at least 3 days, more often 5, to stop a protozoans infection.

Jay

Alright, well I am on day 5 of dosing and it seems like they've attached to the fish again...
Any advice?

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Velvet usually just shows as rapid breathing. I see a lot of mucus here. that can be "end stage ich" or it could be Brooklynella. Trouble is, copper does not work well against Brooklynella.

Jay

Hey, Jay

After QT and fallow period and the fish are back in the display tank, what should I do about adding new clean up crew / inverts / corals in terms of quarantining?
I will from now on QT all fish but I don't know about inverts, is it necessary or risky to not QT them?

thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey, Jay

After QT and fallow period and the fish are back in the display tank, what should I do about adding new clean up crew / inverts / corals in terms of quarantining?
I will from now on QT all fish but I don't know about inverts, is it necessary or risky to not QT them?

thanks

Buying invertebrates from fishless systems is best, but not all dealers do that. The next best idea is to hold them in a fishless system for 30 days before moving them into your main tank.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Buying invertebrates from fishless systems is best, but not all dealers do that. The next best idea is to hold them in a fishless system for 30 days before moving them into your main tank.

Jay

Ok that is possible for me to do,
thanks

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Buying invertebrates from fishless systems is best, but not all dealers do that. The next best idea is to hold them in a fishless system for 30 days before moving them into your main tank.

Jay

Hey, Jay

I filmed a quick video of the clownfish and it seems ich-free, if you could just verify that the fish looks clean and disease free that would be great

I think I already mentioned, but the copper treatment does not say what to do after the 11 days of dosing (which I completed 3 days ago) I actually contacted the manufacturer and asked how long do I wait until I do a water change or anything to remove the copper, and they replied saying keep the medication in the tank for as long as possible until parameters suggest a water change is needed. I think I'll give it at least another week without a water change and check nitrate and just see where things are at.

Thanks again

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey, Jay

I filmed a quick video of the clownfish and it seems ich-free, if you could just verify that the fish looks clean and disease free that would be great

I think I already mentioned, but the copper treatment does not say what to do after the 11 days of dosing (which I completed 3 days ago) I actually contacted the manufacturer and asked how long do I wait until I do a water change or anything to remove the copper, and they replied saying keep the medication in the tank for as long as possible until parameters suggest a water change is needed. I think I'll give it at least another week without a water change and check nitrate and just see where things are at.

Thanks again

Sorry - I can’t view the video on my phone.

I see that I was not clear in an earlier post - when I said copper takes 3 to 5 days to stop protozoan disease, I really meant stop the advancement of the disease, not fully cure the fish. Many protozoan diseases have testing stages and copper does not kill those. You need to keep the fish in copper for long enough that there are no more resting stages left - 30 days typically.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Sorry - I can’t view the video on my phone.

I see that I was not clear in an earlier post - when I said copper takes 3 to 5 days to stop protozoan disease, I really meant stop the advancement of the disease, not fully cure the fish. Many protozoan diseases have testing stages and copper does not kill those. You need to keep the fish in copper for long enough that there are no more resting stages left - 30 days typically.

Jay

Ok then
Signs of ich went at about a week ago, so would you say just don't do water changes for 2 weeks?

Oh by the way, it's probably worth noting that the treatment I am using contains formalin, so could this mean a faster process?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok then
Signs of ich went at about a week ago, so would you say just don't do water changes for 2 weeks?

Oh by the way, it's probably worth noting that the treatment I am using contains formalin, so could this mean a faster process?

Without running a copper test, I couldn’t tell you -

Yeah, those copper/formalin medications are a bit tricky to use -

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Without running a copper test, I couldn’t tell you -

Yeah, those copper/formalin medications are a bit tricky to use -

Jay

Should I ask my LFS to do a copper test? Only trouble is that this medication does not show the amount of copper required, only shows a dosing shedule which I have completed and the symptoms of ich are gone, I am just unsure of what to do now

 

[vetteguy53081]

thanks for the reply,

it is the anti-parasite product and non reef safe

This stuff is good as is avloclor. be sure to run copper tests though as it may have caused issue

 

[Brad Coughlan]

This stuff is good as is avloclor. be sure to run copper tests though as it may have caused issue

The only reason why I haven't done that is because it doesn't say what level to keep it at

Like copper power is 2.5 and cupramine is 0.5, but this product doesn't say anything