Moving sump to Garage.
- Thread starter jorge-Thalia
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Reefering1
Valuable Member
He said he can't trench through the floor, so I assume its a concrete slab foundation
jorge-Thalia
Community Member
No fumes,only liquid all around the house.
Not even ants inside the house…
Thx.
It looks i’m on the right path.
jorge-Thalia
Community Member
Ok.
Help me understand and correct me if i’m wrong.
If i have underneath the tank a sump 75g and i pump from that one to another one in garage same size and from garage to tank.
Even if pumps fail it won’t overflow sumps.the return lines on tank are very high very few gallons goes back to sump underneath when i shut down pump now.
Lets say pump in garage fails to return i will have sump drilled with aux drain if water goes above line it will drain out of the house.
Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
If the attic floor can support it and it doesn’t get too hot, I would just put it in the attic. Then you could pump up from the 75 into the attic and then let it drain back into the 75. That’s the safest way to pull this caper off.
Reefering1
Valuable Member
200g sounds like alot of weight for a attic.. but what if both, the displays sump and garage sump, pumped into a smaller tank in the attic. That tank having dual corner overflows would drain back into display and garage sumps
KandAReefs
Community Member
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Going to be honest with you it doesn't sound like a good idea. A lot of risk a lot of work and you still have to deal with a sump under the tank so what are you really getting out of it. Just about anything can be done with the right equipment but why take the risks? So said your wife would not let you go through the floor because it's a new house but your willing to pump water to the top of it with all the risks that involves?
Won't work you will end up with more water in display or garage sump same as trying to match 2 pumps exactly...
The OP's plan won't work without complex issues requiring float switches or sensors to control water levels - which in turn introduce failure points and pumps cycling on and off.
DARN GRAVITY WINS AGAIN!
Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
don't mess with gravity Newton.
if you can post a picture of the room and tank it might help the engineers brain storm.
if I couldn't get pipes to flow down hill using gravity I wouldn't mess with a good thing for some extra water volume.
can the tank be drained and moved although that seems like alot of work and awkward to have it on the garage wall or outside wall you can then pipe to the garage, you may get used to its new location or maybe come up with a different work around for this gravity issue.
if you can post a picture of the room and tank it might help the engineers brain storm.
if I couldn't get pipes to flow down hill using gravity I wouldn't mess with a good thing for some extra water volume.
can the tank be drained and moved although that seems like alot of work and awkward to have it on the garage wall or outside wall you can then pipe to the garage, you may get used to its new location or maybe come up with a different work around for this gravity issue.
REEFRIED!
Active Member
If the tank is in the middle of living room, how will you run pipes to the attic?
Your idea can be done. You are certainly adding more things that can fail. I’m not sure getting the two pumps to push almost the exact same amount of water is that difficult. It can be done. Also as long as the two sumps are the same size and neither is filled more than 40% you should be fine if either pump fails.
What I’m not understanding is what are you really accomplishing by doing this? You said you want to move the sump to the garage to have the tank in the house and everything else in the garage? But you will still have a sump, and pump, and plumbing under the tank. All you would be getting rid of (under the tank) is a skimmer, heater, and maybe a couple of other random pieces of equipment?
A lot of people have basement sumps, or fish room sumps and they are very practical. They reduce noise, provide more working room, in most cases add water volume, also allow for other equipment like electrical and controllers, etc to be kept under the display in a less damp/humid environment. But in your situation you are going from having a display tank and under tank sump to having two sumps, one in the garage and one STILL under the tank. You aren’t gaining anything of value
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jorge-Thalia
Community Member
Sump underneath tank will be just for pumping water out of it.
I will gain easy access on garage.
Dosing equipment
Alkatronik
Dosetronic
Mastertronic
Uv lights
Water changes
Etc
I understand its a lot of extra equipment that could fail but its worth to try.
The problem is that they would need to push the EXACT same amount of water, or you will have an imbalance over time.
It cannot be done without water level switches, to many variables.
One will eventually run dry and suck air without some kind of control.
I would definitely not attempt to flow match pumps, or rely on a siphon pipe that is endlessly long and high to match a pressurized return. Even with a check valve if something fails that’s a lot of water to backflow to one side or the other.
The way I see this as safe and possible is to put a small sump below the tank as you described, then another reservoir IN the attic. It could be small also, but will essentially act as the exchange site for the water from the display and the remote sump. This attic reservoir would ideally be sealed so no dust gets in, insulated, and vented so it’s not pressurized. To make the system work you would have a pump going from your display sump to the attic, and a drain line returning via gravity, and then another pump going from your equipment sump in the garage to the attic, and a drain line returning via gravity. The water just exchanges and mixes in the attic sealed container. It’s not efficient but it would work safely.
-Ed
The way I see this as safe and possible is to put a small sump below the tank as you described, then another reservoir IN the attic. It could be small also, but will essentially act as the exchange site for the water from the display and the remote sump. This attic reservoir would ideally be sealed so no dust gets in, insulated, and vented so it’s not pressurized. To make the system work you would have a pump going from your display sump to the attic, and a drain line returning via gravity, and then another pump going from your equipment sump in the garage to the attic, and a drain line returning via gravity. The water just exchanges and mixes in the attic sealed container. It’s not efficient but it would work safely.
-Ed
twentyleagues
Valuable Member
This gets so convoluted by the time it actually works with a margin of safety its not really feasible in my mind.
Might be worth looking into a cabinet behind or beside tank for all the other equipment. I'd need to see a pic of said tank and surrounding room to really grasp the idea and the options.
Might be worth looking into a cabinet behind or beside tank for all the other equipment. I'd need to see a pic of said tank and surrounding room to really grasp the idea and the options.
Rjukan
Day Dreamer
There is no way to ensure success without sensors and valves, as previously suggested. And even then it's not actually ensuring success, but rather limiting the extent of failure. Unless...
I could see this possibly working as someone mentioned, using the tank in the attic as the "main" and the display and garage as "sumps". If the attic tank has 3 overflows, one feeding the garage, one the display, and one as an emergency that just dumps to a garage drain or something. Then you wouldn't need to synchronize the pumps, bc if either failed it would keep running through the other tank. Maybe have garage overflow a touch lower so if the display pump fails, there won't be any extra from the garage filling the display. Idk, maybe. But is the water mixing enough in that attic tank to make this worth it? How do you keep this system temp stable? Again, I find myself asking.. is it really worth it?
*edit.. and now I'm wondering about all that water in the pump pipes in the event of a power failure. That's going to be a lot of water for your "sumps" to handle.
I could see this possibly working as someone mentioned, using the tank in the attic as the "main" and the display and garage as "sumps". If the attic tank has 3 overflows, one feeding the garage, one the display, and one as an emergency that just dumps to a garage drain or something. Then you wouldn't need to synchronize the pumps, bc if either failed it would keep running through the other tank. Maybe have garage overflow a touch lower so if the display pump fails, there won't be any extra from the garage filling the display. Idk, maybe. But is the water mixing enough in that attic tank to make this worth it? How do you keep this system temp stable? Again, I find myself asking.. is it really worth it?
*edit.. and now I'm wondering about all that water in the pump pipes in the event of a power failure. That's going to be a lot of water for your "sumps" to handle.
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jorge-Thalia
Community Member
Good point.
I will try this next week
REEFRIED!
Active Member
While this may work, it would be horribly inefficient. There is a chance that the reservoir in the attic would just return the previously pumped water to their respective starting places. I’m sure some of the actual display tank water would make it to the garage sump, however it would be a small percentage. If the filtration and heaters etc are in the garage there is a chance that they would just be recirculating 50-70% of their own respective sumps water.
Pump failure isn't the big issue, although it also is a point of easy catastrophe. The problem is mismatch. Let's say you buy two identical pumps that move 3200 gallons per hour. Let's assume for a second that they engineered by some divine being and there's literally no variation in that number (there will be even among two identical pumps). The second one of them slows down due to age, gunk, mechanical wear, whatever, let's say it now moves 1% less water. Now your 75 gallon sump is either gaining or losing it's entire volume of salt water every day. What will correct that? You can't just drain it or you'll drain your tank. This will require intervention every single day... Now imagine the difference is 10% or more.
Other considerations... How will you correct for evaporation without a "bottom"... You won't have a single chamber whose level depends entirely on how much water is in the system, they will all vary based on the effective relative rates of the pump and the last time you intervened. You'll have to handle evaporation top off manually based on measuring the systems salinity.
The reason everyone is reacting like they are is because you are introducing so so so many points of failure into something where even minor failures result in loss of life, money and often damage to your house.
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