Multiple dwarf angels in one tank?

[davidcalgary29]

I'll take both of your angels.

Here they are in August:

 

[i cant think]

Here they are in August:

Very pretty angels - I thought multicolour angels needed a cooler temperature than the regular angelfish?

 

[davidcalgary29]

Very pretty angels - I thought multicolour angels needed a cooler temperature than the regular angelfish?

This one's done well in the RSM250, which has innate overheating problems. It ran at 28-29C throughout the summer.

 

[Zionas]

Very deepwater ones like Boylei, Narcosis, and the even more elusive Abei (unlike the other two, this one’s never been found living above 100m) will probably need temperatures that are significantly lower than average reef systems. I think there’s a lone Boylei specimen in the tank of a Japanese collector who set up a dedicated system for it with pretty cool temperatures, and he’s had it for over a decade by now.

Interruptus also calls for lower temperatures due to their habitat mostly being in southern Japan. Perhaps the ones from the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands do okay under normal reef temperatures? Maybe but don’t quote me.

Debelius, if we ever see them, require somewhat lower temperatures too as they tend to live beyond the depth of most collectors / recreational divers. Only lone specimens have been found in shallower waters, and Scott W. Michael believes that’s because the main population is found much deeper (250-300 feet and below). The average person will never be able to afford one or even see a living one so yeah.

I’m not sure about Multicolors, Multibars, Colin’s and Venusta. I don’t think they’re strictly deepwater / very deepwater angels, just found at moderate depths relative to the average diver. Perhaps the Nahackyi falls into this category too, and we don’t see it because it’s almost impossible to obtain.

A lot of Genicanthus angels apart from the Lamarck’s and the Spotbreast possibly do better in cooler temperatures too, as they’re more common below 150-200 feet. However plenty of people keep them at normal reef temperatures and they do just fine. I do remember reading about Copps moving his Semifasciatus pair to a cooler tank because they weren’t liking temps in the upper 70s.

Bandit Angels are mostly found at depth (though not like super deep) so might also appreciate cooler temperatures.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Interruptus also calls for lower temperatures due to their habitat mostly being in southern Japan. Perhaps the ones from the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands do okay under normal reef temperatures? Maybe but don’t quote me.

Oh, I hope not. C. interruptus is my dream fish, although I've never seen one for sale, ever. I suppose that I could do a species tank with pygmy filefish, though...

 

[Zionas]

That’s a very pretty one. I’m not sure if they can easily adjust to normal reef temperatures, but perhaps that would be just fine. Scott W.Michael’s angelfish book says 19-24 degrees is ideal for them, but I’m sure there are members who’ve kept them at reef temperatures long term. Again don’t quote me and don’t be discouraged.

 

[LaloJ]

What do you think of the pair of Centropyge abei that Andrew Sandler has in QT? Unreal...

 

[Zionas]

Really? I haven’t seen that yet can you show me the link to his video? (By the way apologies for late reply to your PM I’ll get back to you tomorrow)

 

[LaloJ]

Take your time friend, sure, I'm going to send you the link by PM, I hope it works.

 

[Zionas]

Thanks a lot.

 

[i cant think]

What do you think of the pair of Centropyge abei that Andrew Sandler has in QT? Unreal...

It’s nice but I think I’d leave it for the collectors since it’s a deep water and expensive Angel. Probably costed an arm and a leg to get a pair of them though!

 

[Zionas]

I think a fish like that would pretty much needed more or less a dedicated deepwater setup at lower temperatures than the average reef. Abei is the deepest living Centropyge discovered to date and has ONLY been found 100m or deeper. The Narcosis and Peppermints have been found in somewhat shallower water. Anyone who has the skills to make these fish thrive is insane. But even then I just think there’s dwarf and medium / large angels that are just as good looking and a lot more affordable (though not necessarily “cheap” either).
I do love reading stories about people’s collections of rare deepwater / almost unobtainable fish though.

There’s a trend in Japan where a lot of hobbyists there aren’t really into Tangs or Clowns or some of the other fish is Western (or as “Western” as one would consider me). Instead I’ve seen some of the sickest collections of Basslets, Anthias, Butterflies, and sometimes dwarf angels from Japanese hobbyists. Rare stuff tends to go there and some dedicated collectors have deep pockets and connections.

I would love to see more and more species of angels captive bred. Maybe wrasses too, at least before they all turn male.

Captive breeding more butterflies would be awesome too. From my understanding many species do form lifelong pairs, but their sex is fixed unlike angels.

 

[i cant think]

I think a fish like that would pretty much needed more or less a dedicated deepwater setup at lower temperatures than the average reef. Abei is the deepest living Centropyge discovered to date and has ONLY been found 100m or deeper. The Narcosis and Peppermints have been found in somewhat shallower water. Anyone who has the skills to make these fish thrive is insane. But even then I just think there’s dwarf and medium / large angels that are just as good looking and a lot more affordable (though not necessarily “cheap” either).
I do love reading stories about people’s collections of rare deepwater / almost unobtainable fish though.

There’s a trend in Japan where a lot of hobbyists there aren’t really into Tangs or Clowns or some of the other fish is Western (or as “Western” as one would consider me). Instead I’ve seen some of the sickest collections of Basslets, Anthias, Butterflies, and sometimes dwarf angels from Japanese hobbyists. Rare stuff tends to go there and some dedicated collectors have deep pockets and connections.

I would love to see more and more species of angels captive bred. Maybe wrasses too, at least before they all turn male.

Captive breeding more butterflies would be awesome too. From my understanding many species do form lifelong pairs, but their sex is fixed unlike angels.

My LFS got in a group of about 10 ventralis Anthias going for around £1,000 for a group of 4 - 1 male to 3 females. I don’t like them as much but not do I like the angels and some collections of rare/deep water-ish wrasse on here are just incredible because most of them over here would go for £400-£1,000+. I would for sure love a “deepwater” tank for some of the rarer fish like angels and butterflies aswell as wrasses.

Before Hawaii shut, I was planning to go for a Hawaiian only reef, when I started to do that Hawaii shut and most of the fish there are endemic (Except the Achilles, Lineatus wrasse ect..), I wonder what angels Hawaii has that we don’t see much of anymore.

 

[Zionas]

Pretty much the Potter’s and the Flame (which isn’t common in Hawaii). Most Flames are caught from the Central Pacific and are only transported through Hawaii. Genuine Hawaiian Flames aren’t common. In the angel department we haven’t missed out much. The only other one I can think of would be Bandit Angels but I’d rather see them captive bred in numbers, as I do with any angel. Probably Personatus too but that’s always been an unaffordable one for most.

As for Anthias I’m not into most of them. Only the larger and more solitary / non-schooling species that I find more individually stunning. I could care less about the rest.

Geoffroy’s Leopard Wrasse is a Hawaiian endemic I think. Maybe Potter’s Leopard Wrasse too?

 

[i cant think]

Pretty much the Potter’s and the Flame (which isn’t common in Hawaii). Most Flames are caught from the Central Pacific and are only transported through Hawaii. Genuine Hawaiian Flames aren’t common. In the angel department we haven’t missed out much. The only other one I can think of would be Bandit Angels but I’d rather see them captive bred in numbers, as I do with any angel. Probably Personatus too but that’s always been an unaffordable one for most.

As for Anthias I’m not into most of them. Only the larger and more solitary / non-schooling species that I find more individually stunning. I could care less about the rest.

Geoffroy’s Leopard Wrasse is a Hawaiian endemic I think. Maybe Potter’s Leopard Wrasse too?

Haha, Potters and geoffroys are the same fish (One just uses the scientific name of M. Geoffroyi) other endemic wrasse include C. jordani (I personally think it’s too much fire for my tank), and A. chrysosephalus (My personal favourite Anampses). I may try a Hawaiian only tank IF Hawaii opens again but I doubt it will for a few years. I quite like the potters Angel and would love to keep one just every one I’ve seen has had some form of parasite/infection.
I too would love to see some more captive bred fish but unfortunately it’s not as easy as it is said, I personally would love to see most of the harder to keep species (Zanclus, Acanthurus Achilles, most rarer angelfish ect..) available as captive bred specimens.

 

[LaloJ]

Well, Andrew had a pair of P. boylei, right now he has a trio of G.personatus and his most recent addition is the pair of Abei angelfish, so if anyone can talk about collection it's definitely him, and also if anyone can talk of systems dedicated to maintaining these species would also be him, and other aquarists such as Copps with his sub tropical tank. It's a shame that Hawaii has banned the harvesting of reef fish, however yellow tangs are (or were) common here in Mexico, Potters maybe a few times, and Bandit angelfish has never been here. Pseudanthias ventralis was available on one occasion but they died quickly, they are very delicate fish.

 

[LaloJ]

It’s nice but I think I’d leave it for the collectors since it’s a deep water and expensive Angel. Probably costed an arm and a leg to get a pair of them though!

I think you can add a kidney without problems ...

 

[i cant think]

I think you can add a kidney without problems ...

Along with an eye… In his collection, money is just a number and bankruptcy is just a word

Wait, he has a trio of G. personatus?! I’d love to see a video of his tank, G. personatus is my favourite of the genicanthus species (Slowly followed by the two Swallowtails). P. Boylei is just a photo to me, Although if I did see one for sale over here, I would sell a house for it.

 

[reefsamurai]

Quick reply while I'm at work. All is well and settling in for the tank. The Whitetail had a battle with the male Bella goby for a cave. The Bella kicked it out and it moved along. Aside from that I am unfortunately only able to confirm 4 angels. The eibli, cherub, whitetail and rusty. The lemonpeel hybrid has been Mia almost 2 weeks. One week for the bicolor and about the same for the flame. Now both bicolor and lemonpeel we're somewhat cryptic and only seen sporadically but the flame was out all day long. We have also had a non angel dissapear. The Atlantic blue surgeon has not been seen for days. No signs of issues they just went to bed and never resurfaced the next day. I don't want to pull the rockwork apart looking for them as I've already changed the scape once in the last month and it stressed everyone out. I'll keep holding out hope but at this point we have decided to hold off on adding more fish till we can confirm if there is issues or not.

 

[reefsamurai]

I'm home now and the Atlantic blue is alive. Not happy but alive. He has the ich and is avoiding all other fish like the plague. Is eating though so there's always hope. Everyone else that's visible is doing fine though. Expect a video update this weekend.