My carpenter flasher wrasse and tomani tang suddenly dying

[jmanzzz]

my carpenters flasher wrasse is laying down on my acclimation box and breathing heavily, tomani tang is breathing heavily but still swimming, looks like the new chocolate tang took his spot in his rock so I celared in for him but as I am writing this he is starting to lay on his side. He had what looked like bruises this morning but the wrasse was fine, nothing on the skin just heavy breathing hung by the tang noticed it this morning but he ate and was good but didn’t eat at all today but the flasher was good when I left, suspecting the damsels and the chocolate tang as culprits for the wrasse and all the tangs for the tomani. The only thing I’ve been doing differently this week was adding two caps of nitrate increaser for my corals as I had no nitrates, added a vitamin fish protector one day, and have dosed my tanks worth of Melafix for two days. What can I do for them?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Pics and/or videos under white lighting would be helpful
In the case of heavy breathing, first recourses are to:
-test water for ammonia and Nitrate
-Then do a 25% water change
- add aeration via air stone

What test kits are you using ?
What is water temp?
What is salinity?

With the other fish- are you noticing aggression , you are saying ?

 

[Tamberav]

Ah, I see you made a new post.

What size tank?

Why did you add melafix? Do you suspect disease?

Are these fish in the same tank/exposed to your other sick fish you had before? The clownfish with brook and some issues with a Moorish idol/coral beauty?

It seems like you have been adding a lot of new fish over the past month or so... were these fish quarantined? If so, how?

 

[jmanzzz]

Pics and/or videos under white lighting would be helpful
In the case of heavy breathing, first recourses are to:
-test water for ammonia and Nitrate
-Then do a 25% water change
- add aeration via air stone

What test kits are you using ?
What is water temp?
What is salinity?

With the other fish- are you noticing aggression , you are saying ?

Water temp is 75 on one side, 76 on the other, salinity is .023, API kits are reading 0 for 0 on ammonia, 0 for nitrite, 7.8 for ph and 180 for nitrate after not having ANY a week ago, so that nitrate increaser has bad instructions because it said a capful for a .5ppm increase for a 75 gal, so I have a 55 and did 2 caps every other day and today was day three. Aggression on the carpenter wrasse was some rare biting from the chocolate tang, but the damsels would beat him up, and he sleeps in the same rock as them. Pics below, airstone is in and a prepping for a water change now. Sorry for taking so long to answer, wanted to answer everything at one time

 

[jmanzzz]

Ah, I see you made a new post.

What size tank?

Why did you add melafix? Do you suspect disease?

Are these fish in the same tank/exposed to your other sick fish you had before? The clownfish with brook and some issues with a Moorish idol/coral beauty?

It seems like you have been adding a lot of new fish over the past month or so... were these fish quarantined? If so, how?

This is the same tank, and the moorish and the beauty was a infection of some kind from the aggression of the tomani tang, the clown was weird as I waited about a week for some symptoms on anyone in the display before considering the tank safe again and mardicating with some general cures and supplements and the flasher was added I think over ten days later, but have not qt any fish I’ve gotten recently as the flasher was in my lfs for over a week and the chocolate tang I didn’t do because of some concerns I’ve had with my qt tanks water, as I’ve never had a fish in that tank pull through and recover, so I haven’t qt any fish lately and the fish before that came from a lfs that quarantines the fish when they get them. The chocolate tang and China wrasse I bought together and also determined that these were the last fish going into the tank unless I had a wipe of population

 

[jmanzzz]

Ah, I see you made a new post.

What size tank?

Why did you add melafix? Do you suspect disease?

Are these fish in the same tank/exposed to your other sick fish you had before? The clownfish with brook and some issues with a Moorish idol/coral beauty?

It seems like you have been adding a lot of new fish over the past month or so... were these fish quarantined? If so, how?

Also, all the other fish are operating normally, even my inverts that would be more sensitive to the high nitrates are normal, emerald crabs, sally light foots, purple lobster) also was adding melafix for the clown reason as well as when the agression on the chocolate tang was happening I put it in for healing, also I don’t suspect Brooke was the culprit, as the clown was normal besides some increased breathing and the slime but I had it before with my male clown where my female clown would shove and bite him and the clown got a slime, so might’ve been that, might’ve been Brooke but I took precautions but most likely not enough time and not strong enough medication if it was brook, I know it sounds bad but I don’t believe it’s Brook as there’s no slime sloughing on either of them

 

[BanjoBandito]

There’s way too much going on here for me to process. Don’t treat the tank like a chemistry set. Dumping random product in to treat problems not properly diagnosed is a recipe for failure. If 180 nitrates is factual as I read you need to do massive and multiple water changes. Your fish are stressed. Tanks always have a variety of diseases and parasites in them, healthy fish can repel it, stressed fish cannot. This is not a statement for “biblical plague level problems” though. LFS just do a dip in formalin and call it a day so their systems don’t get external parasites.

 

[jmanzzz]

There’s way too much going on here for me to process. Don’t treat the tank like a chemistry set. Dumping random product in to treat problems not properly diagnosed is a recipe for failure. If 180 nitrates is factual as I read you need to do massive and multiple water changes. Your fish are stressed. Tanks always have a variety of diseases and parasites in them, healthy fish can repel it, stressed fish cannot. This is not a statement for “biblical plague level problems” though. LFS just do a dip in formalin and call it a day so their systems don’t get external parasites.

First off I’m not treating my tank like a chemistry set. I dosed with what I did because that’s what I had on hand and it was light medications and immunity boosters, melafix and fish protector, and dosed for only couple of days, and then stopped and confused continued about a week later because of fin nipping on a new fish and I asked the guy at my lfs and said 2 capfuls every other day would be fine and I didn’t have any nitrates at all last week, the main reason why I put the increaser in, and have only put 6 capfuls in altogether. I’m going to do a retest and a 25 percent water change as that’s all the salt I have on hand to make water, and will retest in the morning to see if another is nessesary. And what do you mean by “biblical plague level problems”

 

[jmanzzz]

There’s way too much going on here for me to process. Don’t treat the tank like a chemistry set. Dumping random product in to treat problems not properly diagnosed is a recipe for failure. If 180 nitrates is factual as I read you need to do massive and multiple water changes. Your fish are stressed. Tanks always have a variety of diseases and parasites in them, healthy fish can repel it, stressed fish cannot. This is not a statement for “biblical plague level problems” though. LFS just do a dip in formalin and call it a day so their systems don’t get external parasites.

What nitrate level do you think this is? I’m doing the water change now just want a second opinion

 

[Tamberav]

Are all these fish in a 55?

If you are not QT and water is high nitrate and there is continuous aggression issues. You will likely lose fish.

If nothing is QT then good chance there is disease which will set in if food, water quality, and low stress are not kept up to par.

Velvet can kill fish without signs except rapid breathing.

High nitrates/poor water quality and injuries from aggression can lead to bacterial infections.

I have never used melafix in a tank but I suppose it’s possible it could lower oxygen in a tank which would be made worse by overcrowding.

If you are having problems with multiple fish…. Looks like.. coral beauty, morish idol (why would you buy this fish? This is for advanced reef keepers with large tanks), clownfish, maybe the China wrasse, and now these few fish…. Needless to say there is something wrong in the process you are using. It sounds like Improper stocking and water quality mixed with not QT.

You are not going to win doing it this way. You are flushing money down the toilet.

I would try and add a bubbler to increase oxygen and do a massive water change to start. This will at least help surviving fish and needs to happen anyways.

Fish laying down and rapid breathing, may be too late. A methylene blue bath and into a QT with fresh clean saltwater matched to salinity and some sort of filter dosed with biospira (to help quick cycle) may help. This gets them out of whatever soup they are in and you can then dose real medications if needed. The methylene blue bath is to help any damage to the gills.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tomini seems to be a problem child and needs to be isolated. As suspected, there is obvious issues with the water and the API kit is notorious for false readings. I would :
Grab a water sample and keep it in a bottle
- Do a good water change
- Add aeration if possible
- Tomorrow , take that water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api kits for testing and see what readings they come up with

Melafix is nothing more than a tonic made of teak tree oil and literally useless regardless of bottle claim.
General cure, great when you have ich or flukes or quarantine. Not sure it was added. Fins will heal on their own from nipping. Its your tank , but dont over-react and add potions without cause. Will at times worsen issues rather than fix them.
Fish will and do squabble. For Tomini, you can also tape a mirror to tank and let the tomini fight with its own reflection/image and leave the other fish alone.
Funny is, I have 18 tangs and my Tomini is the most docile of all of them

 

[vetteguy53081]

Water temp is 75 on one side, 76 on the other, salinity is .023, API kits are reading 0 for 0 on ammonia, 0 for nitrite, 7.8 for ph and 180 for nitrate after not having ANY a week ago, so that nitrate increaser has bad instructions because it said a capful for a .5ppm increase for a 75 gal, so I have a 55 and did 2 caps every other day and today was day three. Aggression on the carpenter wrasse was some rare biting from the chocolate tang, but the damsels would beat him up, and he sleeps in the same rock as them. Pics below, airstone is in and a prepping for a water change now. Sorry for taking so long to answer, wanted to answer everything at one time

Salinity low (35ppt or 1.025)
ph - preffered (8.1-8.3)
Nitrate sky high and literally deadly

Fish, I hate to say are moribund and have a low chance of surviving. You need to address the water quality and then the bullies

 

[jmanzzz]

What nitrate level do you think this is? I’m

Are all these fish in a 55?

If you are not QT and water is high nitrate and there is continuous aggression issues. You will likely lose fish.

If nothing is QT then good chance there is disease which will set in if food, water quality, and low stress are not kept up to par.

Velvet can kill fish without signs except rapid breathing.

High nitrates/poor water quality and injuries from aggression can lead to bacterial infections.

I have never used melafix in a tank but I suppose it’s possible it could lower oxygen in a tank which would be made worse by overcrowding.

If you are having problems with multiple fish…. Looks like.. coral beauty, morish idol (why would you buy this fish? This is for advanced reef keepers with large tanks), clownfish, maybe the China wrasse, and now these few fish…. Needless to say there is something wrong in the process you are using. It sounds like Improper stocking and water quality mixed with not QT.

You are not going to win doing it this way. You are flushing money down the toilet.

I would try and add a bubbler to increase oxygen and do a massive water change to start. This will at least help surviving fish and needs to happen anyways.

Fish laying down and rapid breathing, may be too late. A methylene blue bath and into a QT with fresh clean saltwater matched to salinity and some sort of filter dosed with biospira (to help quick cycle) may help. This gets them out of whatever soup they are in and you can then dose real medications if needed. The methylene blue bath is to help any damage to the gills.

Bubbler has been in the tank for an hour, the two are still alive, still on their sides, if they last the night I’ll get new clean water for my qt in the morning so I can’t do much about them right now besides a 25 percent water change, as I don’t think that 20gal tank has good water in it so I think thier changes are better I her for now, and I am overstocked on my 55 because my 20gal qt was a botched nano reef. And by “soup” do you mean the way they are right now (gasping, on their side) or the water quality, because the test was wrong, I retested and the results look more like 40-80 ppm. The clowns and the damsels will be pulled, maybe some of my inverts but idk about that. I’m listening, but I need some time to work it all out completely. The idol was me being misguided, but I did a lot of research but found out too late I was listening to the wrong people, wouldn’t keep an idol agian. It’s not that I’m completely stupid with managing everything, I have been with some things as I figured it out, but I also have been having some bad luck recently

 

[jmanzzz]

Salinity low (35ppt or 1.025)
ph - preffered (8.1-8.3)
Nitrate sky high and literally deadly

Fish, I hate to say are moribund and have a low chance of surviving. You need to address the water quality and then the bullies

Retested it’s more like 40 to 80 ppm got some better lighting on the tube as well, doing water change

 

[blaxsun]

Retested it’s more like 40 to 80 ppm got some better lighting on the tube as well, doing water change

I was just going to reply that the color from the nitrate test you posted looks to be between 40-80ppm. So high, but not like 200ppm+ high. I know the ATI test kits are popular, but the results can vary widely and be all over the place. I would invest in a good testing kit like Aquaforest, Nyos, Red Sea, Salifert or Hanna.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Retested it’s more like 40 to 80 ppm got some better lighting on the tube as well, doing water change

Still high but more promising

 

[Tamberav]

I think you need to rethink your stocking levels for a 55 after this. A nano does not explain two tangs in a 55g. That can easily lead to a fight.


55g is a fairly small tank. I only have one tang in my 80g.

 

[jmanzzz]

I think you need to rethink your stocking levels for a 55 after this. A nano does not explain two tangs in a 55g. That can easily lead to a fight.


55g is a fairly small tank. I only have one tang in my 80g.

I have 180 gallon upgrade coming within the year, I would not ever keep the tangs I have in my 55 in there long term

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You are not going to win doing it this way. You are flushing money down the toilet.

He's also causing unnecessary suffering to the animals...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I have 180 gallon upgrade coming within the year, I would not ever keep the tangs I have in my 55 in there long term

Buy fish appropriate for a 180 AFTER you have a running, cycled 180. Tangs don't know that this is a temporary tank and aggression is almost guaranteed with your stocking choices.