My Current QT Process

[Kasey Grohowski]

I think I'm done trying QT

Lost my Dottyback.

Water paramters were all perfect. Copper was slowly coming up. At about 1.25 ppm. Was in the tank about a week barely ate

What are "perfect" water parameters (also what test kit did you use)? Were there any other symptoms besides "barely ate"? I actually bought a $50 reef led for both of my 20 gallon qt's so I can see the fish clearly.

 

[Hallowhead]

What are "perfect" water parameters (also what test kit did you use)? Were there any other symptoms besides "barely ate"? I actually bought a $50 reef led for both of my 20 gallon qt's so I can see the fish clearly.

Zero ammonia
1/2 ppm nitrate
0 nitrite
Copper 1.25 ppm

 

[Kasey Grohowski]

Zero ammonia
1/2 ppm nitrate
0 nitrite
Copper 1.25 ppm

Answers to other ?'s

 

[Hallowhead]

Answers to other ?'s

I use salifert nitrate
Api copper
Api nitrite and ammonia

No qt tank lights as lights generate algae the tank is lit by light overflow

 

[Kasey Grohowski]

I use salifert nitrate
Api copper
Api nitrite and ammonia

No qt tank lights as lights generate algae the tank is lit by light overflow

Won't get algae with 0 nitrate. So could you see if had any obvious symptoms of disease? (White spots white stringy poop etc)

 

[Hallowhead]

Won't get algae with 0 nitrate. So could you see if had any obvious symptoms of disease? (White spots white stringy poop etc)

Exactly why I don't use a light and have zero nitrate !

No other signs normal poops etc

 

[CDavmd]

@HotRocks Just curious....why the transfer to another tank at the 2 week point. Is it not acceptable to leave the fish in the same aquarium and just remove the copper with cuprisorb/carbon and water changes prior to starting the Prazi or General cure rounds?
Thanks!

 

[JCTReefer]

@HotRocks Just curious....why the transfer to another tank at the 2 week point. Is it not acceptable to leave the fish in the same aquarium and just remove the copper with cuprisorb/carbon and water changes prior to starting the Prazi or General cure rounds?
Thanks!

@HotRocks answered this earlier in the thread. I’ve read through this thing a few times. Lol. This is what he said.
Copper only kills the final free swimming stage (looking for a fish to host) of the Ich/velvet life cycle.
So in 14 days time the fish themselves are clear of any trophonts. (likely in 7-10 days) 14 is insurance. They drop off the fish and begin reproduction eventually to the free swimming stage of tomite or dinospores. In therapeutic copper they explode instantly upon release. Therefore the fish can not be re-infected. That is why the transfer to a sterile QT works in the 14 day range, as the tomonts are left behind in the copper tank. FYI tomonts can encyst upon anything hard. PVC pipe, glass, filter, heater, etc. So you do have to use caution when transferring fish. I always net them into a bucket matching QT parameters dosed with copper. Then use a sperate net to move them from bucket to sterile QT.

However if you are lowering copper sooner than 30 days using the same tank there can still be viable tomonts releasing free swimmers to re-infect the fish. Make sense?

1 QT for Copper = 30 days of copper at the therapeutic level.
2 QTs = 14 days in tank 1 of therapeutic copper, then transfer to sterile tank 2.

 

[CDavmd]

@HotRocks answered this earlier in the thread. I’ve read through this thing a few times. Lol. This is what he said.
Copper only kills the final free swimming stage (looking for a fish to host) of the Ich/velvet life cycle.
So in 14 days time the fish themselves are clear of any trophonts. (likely in 7-10 days) 14 is insurance. They drop off the fish and begin reproduction eventually to the free swimming stage of tomite or dinospores. In therapeutic copper they explode instantly upon release. Therefore the fish can not be re-infected. That is why the transfer to a sterile QT works in the 14 day range, as the tomonts are left behind in the copper tank. FYI tomonts can encyst upon anything hard. PVC pipe, glass, filter, heater, etc. So you do have to use caution when transferring fish. I always net them into a bucket matching QT parameters dosed with copper. Then use a sperate net to move them from bucket to sterile QT.

However if you are lowering copper sooner than 30 days using the same tank there can still be viable tomonts releasing free swimmers to re-infect the fish. Make sense?

1 QT for Copper = 30 days of copper at the therapeutic level.
2 QTs = 14 days in tank 1 of therapeutic copper, then transfer to sterile tank 2.

Gotcha Thanks!

 

[Kasey Grohowski]

So @HotRocks theoretically it's impossible for a healthy fish to die from ich/velvet in a 2.0 ppm CU tank?

 

[HotRocks]

So @HotRocks theoretically it's impossible for a healthy fish to die from ich/velvet in a 2.0 ppm CU tank?

Copper suppresses the immune system. So if there is another ailment not treated by copper or if the fish had such a heavy affliction from ich/velvet and the gill damage was significant prior to the introduction to copper a fish could still die during copper treatment.

Theoretically it's impossible for an affliction to occur caused by ich or velvet in therapeutic copper, yes.

 

[Hallowhead]

Copper suppresses the immune system. So if there is another ailment not treated by copper or if the fish had such a heavy affliction from ich/velvet and the gill damage was significant prior to the introduction to copper a fish could still die during copper treatment.

Theoretically it's impossible for an affliction to occur caused by ich or velvet in copper yes.

Help me stop losing fish in my QT

 

[Brew12]

So @HotRocks theoretically it's impossible for a healthy fish to die from ich/velvet in a 2.0 ppm CU tank?

I think this is a confusing question. A healthy fish with ich/velvet parasites would have to be asymptomatic. An asymptomatic fish won't die from ich/velvet. However, if they do have symptoms, they are no longer a healthy fish, they are diseased. And diseased fish can die from ich/velvet.

If you were asking if a fish that did not currently have the ich/velvet parasites could become infected with them, than I agree with this.

Theoretically it's impossible for an affliction to occur caused by ich or velvet in copper yes.

Based on currently accepted science, a fish should not be able to become infected in a system with 2ppm chelated copper.

 

[HotRocks]

Help me stop losing fish in my QT

What is going on with your QT/fish?

 

[Hallowhead]

What is going on with your QT/fish?

They all died . Everything I've QT have died overnight.

Zero ammonia
Zero nitrate
Zero nitrite.

I used seeded marine pure and use a hob filter

No lights

 

[Brew12]

They all died . Everything I've QT have died overnight.

Zero ammonia
Zero nitrate
Zero nitrite.

I used seeded marine pure and use a hob filter

No lights

It would help to know what type of fish, how you acclimated them, what symptoms they had, and where you were with treating them when they died.

 

[Hallowhead]

It would help to know what type of fish, how you acclimated them, what symptoms they had, and where you were with treating them when they died.

They had zero symptoms it was preventative

A six line wrasse and a orchid Dottyback.

I had the tank at 1.0 ppm copper power when they were introduced.

As the steps state I acclimated temp for 30 mins and dumped in

Wrasse was okay for 4 days and died
Orchid Dottyback made a week and died

 

[Brew12]

They had zero symptoms it was preventative

A six line wrasse and a orchid Dottyback.

I had the tank at 1.0 ppm copper power when they were introduced.

As the steps state I acclimated temp for 30 mins and dumped in

Wrasse was okay for 4 days and died
Orchid Dottyback made a week and died

Did you match salinity between your QT and the water they came in? And did you get them from an LFS or order them online?

 

[Hallowhead]

Did you match salinity between your QT and the water they came in? And did you get them from an LFS or order them online?

Ordered from liveaquaria and yes it was the same.

I had PVC pipes inside for the fish to hide in

It just seems so incredibly stressful for the fish

 

[Brew12]

Ordered from liveaquaria and yes it was the same.

I had PVC pipes inside for the fish to hide in

It just seems so incredibly stressful for the fish

Wrasses in general tend to be sensitive to medications. 6-lines are one of the more hardy variety but I've never tried putting one directly in 1ppm copper.
It shouldn't have been an issue with the dottyback. They seem to respond to medications better than most fish.
Were they eating while in your QT?