My Current QT Process

[atp0726]

@HotRocks at what point would you suggest increasing salinity? I've read through 56 pages and don't remember anything about when to do this. I guess it would make sense to increase salinity after copper treatment in the 2nd tank. Also, I'm going to be mixing up some medicated food. for 1 tablespoon of frozen=1 scoop GC, 1 scoop Focus and I have selcon and garlic guard. How much of the selcon, garlic guard should be used? This is my first time doing a QT. FWIW I have two small clowns in a 10 gallon tank. Thank you

I wouldn’t over think it. Just top off with saltwater instead of fresh and monitor you salinity until you get to the desired level. I have also increased it a week before moving to the DT with no ill effect.
I just do maybe three drops ofselcon and 1-2 of garlic.

 

[Sixty7x]

I wouldn’t over think it. Just top off with saltwater instead of fresh and monitor you salinity until you get to the desired level. I have also increased it a week before moving to the DT with no ill effect.
I just do maybe three drops ofselcon and 1-2 of garlic.

I hear ya....It's tough to not over think it after reading 56 pages of "what if" and "maybe". A few drops of each sounds reasonable and it seems to come up in a few other threads. I've never used it before and just kind of needed a starting point. The reason i ask about salinity is because it was stated earlier in a post that the lower salinity keeps stress on the fish down. I suppose i'll just keep it at it's current until we're out of copper then start to bring it up during observation. Thanks!

 

[Erick375]

Blue/green Chromis are a real problem with Uronema these days. I'd avoid them. If you get Uronema in your tank it's there until you sterilize it. Flame Angels are beautiful, but these dwarf angels need a good supply of algae on the rocks. They will literally wear themselves out pecking on immature dry rock looking for algae, etc. that they feed upon. So if you can, wait until the tank is mature enough for them.

?
Was just planning on setting up QT to add 5 blue/green chromis. Any thoughts on alternative schooling fish for reef tank

 

[Big G]

?
Was just planning on setting up QT to add 5 blue/green chromis. Any thoughts on alternative schooling fish for reef tank

I have a small group of Blue Sapphire Damsels (very peaceful) in my tank. They stay about 2" in length max. They hang out together and will also spread out as their mood suits them. Take a look, you might like them. The picture below doesn't do them justice. Amazing vibrant blue color.

 

[TaiVo]

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Dosage for food soaked meds:
Add 1 scoop of GC (scoop that comes with focus) + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food. I add selcon + a touch of garlic to help dissolve the meds.
*You can also use Metroplex in place of general cure, it does however only treat for intestinal parasites instead of intestinal parasites + worms*. This food can be refrigerated once medicated. Is for 3-5 days, toss and make new.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 2.0PPM. increasing the level .25ppm per day or several small doses (the time is less important than the small increments). I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema. This treatment is dosed into the water column to treat externally, as I have covered internal issues during copper with the food soaked meds.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath per @Humblefish's normal protocol.

Fish with suspected ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Dosage for food soaked meds:
Add 1 scoop of GC (scoop that comes with focus) + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food. I add selcon + a touch of garlic to help dissolve the meds.
*You can also use Metroplex in place of general cure, it does however only treat for intestinal parasites instead of intestinal parasites + worms*. This food can be refrigerated once medicated. Is for 3-5 days, toss and make new.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 2.0PPM. increasing the level .25ppm per day or several small doses (the time is less important than the small increments). I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema. This treatment is dosed into the water column to treat externally, as I have covered internal issues during copper with the food soaked meds.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath per @Humblefish's normal protocol.

Fish with suspected ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

how do you figure out the amount of copper power to dose in new sw when doing wc? I’m trying to save my tang and clown they have ich.

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

how do you figure out the amount of copper power to dose in new sw when doing wc? I’m trying to save my tang and clown they have ich.

Ratios for Dosing Copper Power

I have recently been getting a few requests for how to adjust dosing with all of my research on the hanna checker and copper power being used together. Figured I would throw this up as a point of reference. For anyone using Copper Power: Bottle concentration will bring you to a Cu level of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[SeeFu]

overtime you figure out how much copper you need for a fixed amount of fresh water during a water change. I believe there is a post that shows you how much copper you need for every gallon of fresh water to achieve a specfici copper level

 

[SeeFu]

Ratios for Dosing Copper Power

I have recently been getting a few requests for how to adjust dosing with all of my research on the hanna checker and copper power being used together. Figured I would throw this up as a point of reference. For anyone using Copper Power: Bottle concentration will bring you to a Cu level of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sixty7x]

@HotRocks I'm coming up on 2 weeks of medicated food (frozen mysis with GC, focus, selcon) for my 2 clowns. I haven't observed any stringy poop. I was wondering if it would hurt to just continue the medicated feed for another week as precautionary. I made 1/2 TBSP and still have about half left in the freezer.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks I'm coming up on 2 weeks of medicated food (frozen mysis with GC, focus, selcon) for my 2 clowns. I haven't observed any stringy poop. I was wondering if it would hurt to just continue the medicated feed for another week as precautionary. I made 1/2 TBSP and still have about half left in the freezer.

If you have never seen any signs of stringy poop my recommendation would be to discontinue the medicated food and resume normal feedings. You should be good to go!

 

[Sixty7x]

If you have never seen any signs of stringy poop my recommendation would be to discontinue the medicated food and resume normal feedings. You should be good to go!


Thank you.

 

[Devaji]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily #reefsquad
Ok I am a bit confused here what is the "best" method for Qting fish copper up to 2.00PPM check via hanna checker or the new hybrid TTM method with added GC for internal parasites??

I am guessing the new hybris TTM is still a bit new to completely recommend it to the masses?

just trying to get my QT process for the new tank in a few months.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily #reefsquad
Ok I am a bit confused here what is the "best" method for Qting fish copper up to 2.00PPM check via hanna checker or the new hybrid TTM method with added GC for internal parasites??

I am guessing the new hybris TTM is still a bit new to completely recommend it to the masses?

just trying to get my QT process for the new tank in a few months.

Copper is Tried and True. I still use the copper method personally.

The hybrid TTM using H2O2 is probably viable but still in the "testing phase".

 

[4FordFamily]

Copper is Tried and True. I still use the copper method personally.

The hybrid TTM using H2O2 is probably viable but still in the "testing phase".

This

 

[Sixty7x]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @Humblefish as luck would have it today was the first day of no medicated feed and after I fed unmedicated mysis I noticed what appeared to be about a 1" long thin white poop on the bottom glass. All the other fish waste has been brown and only 1/4" long. I feed pellets in the a.m. and medicated mysis in the p.m. . I'm going to continue this for another week and try to observe more. My question is this....Is there a chance that the General Cure isn't as effective because I mixed a batch of food (1/2 TBSP thawed mysis, 1/2 scoop general cure, 1/2 scoop focus, 1 drop selcon, 1 drop garlic guard) then froze it right away?
FWIW-this is for 2 clowns that had medicated food for 14 days. They are in 2.05 ppm copper power (day10)

 

[4FordFamily]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @Humblefish as luck would have it today was the first day of no medicated feed and after I fed unmedicated mysis I noticed what appeared to be about a 1" long thin white poop on the bottom glass. All the other fish waste has been brown and only 1/4" long. I feed pellets in the a.m. and medicated mysis in the p.m. . I'm going to continue this for another week and try to observe more. My question is this....Is there a chance that the General Cure isn't as effective because I mixed a batch of food (1/2 TBSP thawed mysis, 1/2 scoop general cure, 1/2 scoop focus, 1 drop selcon, 1 drop garlic guard) then froze it right away?
FWIW-this is for 2 clowns that had medicated food for 14 days. They are in 2.05 ppm copper power (day10)

Freezing it shouldn’t matter, IMO. I’d stat course, increase amount of GC. Focus requires a higher ratio in the food than does GC as well. You may try more focus to bind better.

 

[Sixty7x]

Freezing it shouldn’t matter, IMO. I’d stat course, increase amount of GC. Focus requires a higher ratio in the food than does GC as well. You may try more focus to bind better.

I will mix up a new batch of feed tonight with increased GC and a higher ratio of Focus. Something like 20% more GC and maybe 30% more Focus? Of course these numbers are mostly guesstimate. Is it possible to overdose at this amount?

 

[4FordFamily]

I will mix up a new batch of feed tonight with increased GC and a higher ratio of Focus. Something like 20% more GC and maybe 30% more Focus? Of course these numbers are mostly guesstimate. Is it possible to overdose at this amount?

I haven’t overdosed yet! I’d add even more focus too.

 

[Sixty7x]

I haven’t overdosed yet! I’d add even more focus too.

Well then let’s party! GC & Focus for everyone.... whoa that almost sounds too real seriously though thank you for your advice

 

[Fragmented Wolf]

First of all, Thank you very much @HotRocks. Being brand new to the hobby, this is definitely nerve-wracking and having so much useful information in one post is fantastic. Seriously, thank a lot.

My main question.

I love the idea of a 2nd QT tank and I will get one if necessary... Here is why it may not be for me, just this once.

As I said, I'm brand new to the hobby and my display tank is cycled but with nothing inside of it yet.
Would it be possible to treat with copper and general cure for 14 days in the QT tank and then transfer to display tank with nothing in it and finish with general cure in the water column?

If I discover fish still have issues / parasites, would they die off in the display tank with time if any and all fish were removed? If something has the ability to live in the water indefinitely and survive off no fish, then I will run out and buy a 2nd tank tomorrow, but if everything can die naturally after fish removal, then I see no need to get a 2nd tank on my very first fish.

Hope I made sense, and hope to hear back. Thanks!