My First Week Experience with the Reef Moonshiners Program

[Genvid]

All resources, including a 3 hour Reefdudes video with Andre, advise that reading the moonshiners handbook at least 2 times to totally understand the program before you dive in.

I've read it 4 times now and just started the process this week. Here is the link, diving into this without reading this thoroughly I would agree is a huge mistake. Andre also recommends this is not for reef tank owners that aren't already pretty dialed into their reef tanks and understand this hobby very well.

All your questions will be answered here.

Reef Moonshiners Handbook and Tools

Easy Reefing, Trace Elements, Coral growth, Coral coloration, Acropora, Reeftank, Reefing, Beautiful Saltwater Tank, Andre Mueller, Reef Moonshiner, Tissue Necrosis, RTN prevention, STN prevention, Reef Maintenance, Cheap Trace Elements, Trace Element Dosing, Rubidium, Vanadium, Liquimud...

www.reefmoonshiners.com

 

[Genvid]

All resources, including a 3 hour Reefdudes video with Andre, advise that reading the moonshiners handbook at least 2 times to totally understand the program before you dive in.

I've read it 4 times now and just started the process this week. Here is the link, diving into this without reading this thoroughly I would agree huge mistake. Andre also recommends this is not for reef tank owners that aren't already pretty dialed into their reef tanks and understand this hobby very well.

All your questions will be answered here.

Reef Moonshiners Handbook and Tools

Easy Reefing, Trace Elements, Coral growth, Coral coloration, Acropora, Reeftank, Reefing, Beautiful Saltwater Tank, Andre Mueller, Reef Moonshiner, Tissue Necrosis, RTN prevention, STN prevention, Reef Maintenance, Cheap Trace Elements, Trace Element Dosing, Rubidium, Vanadium, Liquimud...

www.reefmoonshiners.com

Thank you very much, I will study.

 

[dadnjesse]

All resources, including a 3 hour Reefdudes video with Andre, advise that reading the moonshiners handbook at least 2 times to totally understand the program before you dive in.

I've read it 4 times now and just started the process this week. Here is the link, diving into this without reading this thoroughly I would agree is a huge mistake. Andre also recommends this is not for reef tank owners that aren't already pretty dialed into their reef tanks and understand this hobby very well.

All your questions will be answered here.

Reef Moonshiners Handbook and Tools

Easy Reefing, Trace Elements, Coral growth, Coral coloration, Acropora, Reeftank, Reefing, Beautiful Saltwater Tank, Andre Mueller, Reef Moonshiner, Tissue Necrosis, RTN prevention, STN prevention, Reef Maintenance, Cheap Trace Elements, Trace Element Dosing, Rubidium, Vanadium, Liquimud...

www.reefmoonshiners.com

Where do you read that he stated it's not for experienced reefers? I read his book and didn't see that.

 

[14 foot reef]

Where do you read that he stated it's not for experienced reefers? I read his book and didn't see that.

not for experienced reefers ?

 

[dadnjesse]

"Andre also recommends this is not for reef tank owners that aren't already pretty dialed into their reef tanks and understand this hobby very well"

 

[CK00020]

On the average how much is the initial batch of additives to buy?

 

[Outlaw Corals]

Hello Everyone,

I am excited to share my experience after completing the first week of the Reef Moonshiners program. With 16 years in the hobby, this has been one of the most significant improvements I've made to any of my aquariums and it's definitely worth discussing.

A brief overview of my aquarium:

My aquarium is a heavily stocked mixed reef Red Sea Reefer S-1000 G2 with a water volume of 265 gallons, running for about 7 months (transferred from my previous 180-gallon tank). I've faced various issues with this setup, such as fluctuating alkalinity and calcium levels, and persistent Po4 and No3 levels. Although my corals survived, I occasionally experienced random coral deaths and random SPS RTN and STN occurrences.

One thing I've noticed recently, is that when I asked people with impressive reef tanks about their maintenance routines, "Reef Moonshiners" was a common response. So, I decided to give it a try.

I began by ordering the ATI ICP test and inputting the results into the Reef Moonshiners Excel workbook. While obtaining all the required elements for daily dosing was expensive, I can see that they will last a long time, even for my 265-gallon aquarium.

After starting the program as guided by the workbook, I observed the following changes within 3 days:

1. Alkalinity consumption nearly doubled and now aligns closely with calcium.
2. Calcium consumption almost tripled.
3. Po4 levels decreased significantly.
4. N03 levels dropped from the 40s to below 20.

Within 7 days:

1. All SPS corals suffering from STN have fully recovered.
2. My reef mat's filter media consumption has reduced from 120" to 60" per day.
3. All red slime algae have completely vanished.
4. Corals are displaying never-before-seen colors.
5. Encrusting corals are growing at an unprecedented rate.
6. Many corals have experienced substantial polyp extension.

Though I was initially skeptical about new solutions and methods, the Reef Moonshiners program has exceeded my expectations. I wholeheartedly recommend giving it a try if you're considering it.

I have to get on that stuff i have not read one bad thing about it

 

[paintman]

On the average how much is the initial batch of additives to buy?

Get ready to shell out at leaast $200-$300 to get started. Each bottle is around $20 and a few of the elements are $40 per bottle. Even if your ICP test comes back a perfect match to ocean water, Andre (conventialy for his bank account), has his calculator tell you to dose alot for corrections.

I would guess even if you made a brand new batch of 200 gallons of RO water and used any salt that said "Pro" or "Reef" and then ran an ICP test on it. You would still need to buy at least 5-6 bottles just to bump the numbers up to where Andre sez they needed to be.

Example, my first ICP test said my flouride was well in range but yet I had to dose nearly 3/4 of a bottle for the correction. Cha Ching!

 

[Freddie83]

Get ready to shell out at leaast $200-$300 to get started. Each bottle is around $20 and a few of the elements are $40 per bottle. Even if your ICP test comes back a perfect match to ocean water, Andre (conventialy for his bank account), has his calculator tell you to dose alot for corrections.

I would guess even if you made a brand new batch of 200 gallons of RO water and used any salt that said "Pro" or "Reef" and then ran an ICP test on it. You would still need to buy at least 5-6 bottles just to bump the numbers up to where Andre sez they needed to be.

Example, my first ICP test said my flouride was well in range but yet I had to dose nearly 3/4 of a bottle for the correction. Cha Ching!

That’s a silly take.
1. You can use elements from anywhere, you certainly don’t have to buy them from the RM store.
2. Doesn’t matter what the corrections are, the bottle you buy from the RM store will last you forever.
3. If you think you’re dosing “extra” to just use up more of the elements, you just don’t understand the RM program.

initial investment for me was about $400 for a 265g aquarium. The elements I have will last me a few years.

 

[paintman]

That’s a silly take.
1. You can use elements from anywhere, you certainly don’t have to buy them from the RM store.
2. Doesn’t matter what the corrections are, the bottle you buy from the RM store will last you forever.
3. If you think you’re dosing “extra” to just use up more of the elements, you just don’t understand the RM program.

initial investment for me was about $400 for a 265g aquarium. The elements I have will last me a few years.

Seems to me your the one who doesn't understand the RM method. My first set of corrections I had to buy 2 bottles of flouride x $20 and a bottle of boron x $20 not to mention rubidium and molybednum whic is $40 a bottle. And that was using the salt that sez "Pro" on it that everyone is so giddy about.

Yes the dalies will last you forever, but you will always be shelling out $ to make the corrections as our salts are nowhere near the values that Andre wants you to run. Now all of a sudden he is pushing selenium as well as buying the more expensive MS lab test. And the CoralX, and his mud, and ProBio.

At what point does it not become more cost effective then simple water changes?

 

[Freddie83]

Seems to me your the one who doesn't understand the RM method. My first set of corrections I had to buy 2 bottles of flouride x $20 and a bottle of boron x $20 not to mention rubidium and molybednum whic is $40 a bottle. And that was using the salt that sez "Pro" on it that everyone is so giddy about.

Yes the dalies will last you forever, but you will always be shelling out $ to make the corrections as our salts are nowhere near the values that Andre wants you to run. Now all of a sudden he is pushing selenium as well as buying the more expensive MS lab test. And the CoralX, and his mud, and ProBio.

At what point does it not become more cost effective then simple water changes?

What I do understand is that (again) you do not have to buy your elements from the RM store, it's your choice whether you do or not, the entire program can function with you never spending a single dollar with them.
I'm on my second month of corrections and I've yet to replenish anything (I have a 265g tank) and I'll likely not need to replenish anything for several months. If you understand the RM method, you'll know that certain elements are elevated because of the benefit they provide at higher level (faster growth, more color, etc.), think about it as body builder eating more protein than the average person to make their physique grow faster.

Believing that RM recommends higher level so that they can make more money is plain silly, how much extra revenue can they bring in by telling you to dose 3ml per month instead of 2ml? I'm sure they're squeezing dozens of extra dollars from their customers every month thanks to this one simple trick .

Ultimately, your "pro" salt may not be as "pro" as you think.

 

[eg8r210]

Seems to me your the one who doesn't understand the RM method. My first set of corrections I had to buy 2 bottles of flouride x $20 and a bottle of boron x $20 not to mention rubidium and molybednum whic is $40 a bottle. And that was using the salt that sez "Pro" on it that everyone is so giddy about.

Yes the dalies will last you forever, but you will always be shelling out $ to make the corrections as our salts are nowhere near the values that Andre wants you to run. Now all of a sudden he is pushing selenium as well as buying the more expensive MS lab test. And the CoralX, and his mud, and ProBio.

At what point does it not become more cost effective then simple water changes?

I guess the real question is whether or not you prefer the chemistry from the simple water change, or the chemistry Andre recommends. Up to you to decide. I have a 100 gal system and I have found this system to be much more affordable than doing a 20% water change every couple weeks. After few months I have found that my corrections are less and less because I adjust my dailies to compensate (in process of doing exactly this with Fluoride). 3-4 drops per day on my dailies out of a 500 ml bottle that cost me $20 is quite cheap and it will last forever. I have 9 bottles that I dose daily so that was a $180 buy in (ignoring the corrections initially). They will last at least 3 years so my daily dosing costs me $60/year. My corrections for the past 3 months only cost me a total of $20 because I had to buy a bottle of fluoride however the other 3 corrections I had left overs from the initial 3 bottle I bought (and these will last at least 3 years). So roughly $140-150 per year on dosing to keep my corals happy. I can't do water changes for that price.

Ultimately, RM requires a fair bit of faith that Andre has done his due diligence researching the chemistry and his algorithms to make sure we are not being led down a path of failure. Yes his chemistry recommendations are not a 1:1 match with what you will get from any water change. You pick your poison, go with water change or go with a program like RM. One costs more up front to start but the other costs more in long term maintenance. Oh by the way, no water changes required on RM is another big benefit for me.

 

[t5Nitro]

I downloaded the handbook and took a look at these. Do most people find a lot of success dosing all of these daily? Just verifying what people are finding all of what's in the handbook as useful and not just a source of income for the seller. Then I'm considering DIY potassium supplement.

 

[saltyfins]

I downloaded the handbook and took a look at these. Do most people find a lot of success dosing all of these daily? Just verifying what people are finding all of what's in the handbook as useful and not just a source of income for the seller. Then I'm considering DIY potassium supplement.

takes less than 2 minutes on my 300 gallon. I only have to dose 3 right now. Instant Ocean is my salt

 

[14 foot reef]

I'm Dosing Daily the following on an 850 gallon system using Instant Ocean Salt - Takes me 5 minutes a day max.

Iodide
Cobalt
Chromium
Iron
Vanadium
Liquid Mud
Vitamin-X
Selenium

 

[t5Nitro]

Awesome! Thanks, I might give those a a try for now!

 

[Freddie83]

I downloaded the handbook and took a look at these. Do most people find a lot of success dosing all of these daily? Just verifying what people are finding all of what's in the handbook as useful and not just a source of income for the seller. Then I'm considering DIY potassium supplement.

Iodine I’ve always had to dose, even before RM. out of the others, I only dose 3 per day.

 

[t5Nitro]

Iodine I’ve always had to dose, even before RM. out of the others, I only dose 3 per day.

Which 3 are your go to?

 

[Freddie83]

Which 3 are your go to?

Iron, Vanadium, and Chronium.
I had to dose Cobalt last round but asked me to stop after my last ICP test.

 

[OutColdCRNA]

Been following this thread. OP would love to see some progression pics if you had some.