My modified qt protocol

[JonasRoman]

Hi. Next week my Acanthurus pyroferus will arriive and will be quarantined. All my fish have gone through a protocol but I have done different depending on the fish, like its sensitivity for cupper etc.
I hava basically used 2 methods. None of the are perfect but have worked fine for me with no diseases in my DT so far.
The 2 methods are decribed here. For my coming Acanthurus pyroferus I plan to use "method 2". When I say formaline bath I always mean 200 ppm, in 45 min.

Any comments or inputs are valuable.

Method 1: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. After 7 days I get them another formaline bath, and place back in the QT which meantine has been totally cleaned and 100% new water. Finaly after 2 weeks, I let them go to the DT through a third Formaline bath.
I used this for my :Anthias, juvenile navarchus, bispinosus, goldflake.

Method 2: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. In QT, Cuppersulfate 0.15-0.2 ppm every day for 2 weeks. Passed a second formaline bath after the 14 days QT prior to enter the DT.
This I did on my leucosternon, naso, imperator.

Jonas

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi. Next week my Acanthurus pyroferus will arriive and will be quarantined. All my fish have gone through a protocol but I have done different depending on the fish, like its sensitivity for cupper etc.
I hava basically used 2 methods. None of the are perfect but have worked fine for me with no diseases in my DT so far.
The 2 methods are decribed here. For my coming Acanthurus pyroferus I plan to use "method 2". When I say formaline bath I always mean 200 ppm, in 45 min.

Any comments or inputs are valuable.

Method 1: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. After 7 days I get them another formaline bath, and place back in the QT which meantine has been totally cleaned and 100% new water. Finaly after 2 weeks, I let them go to the DT through a third Formaline bath.
I used this for my :Anthias, juvenile navarchus, bispinosus, goldflake.

Method 2: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. In QT, Cuppersulfate 0.15-0.2 ppm every day for 2 weeks. Passed a second formaline bath after the 14 days QT prior to enter the DT.
This I did on my leucosternon, naso, imperator.

Jonas

Skip the formalin which has health and handling risks
Go to coppersafe which is very safe at 2.25ppm for a full 30 days and keep an eye on ammonia levels . Coppsafe starts to take effect at 2.0ppm

 

[JonasRoman]

Skip the formalin which has health and handling risks
Go to coppersafe which is very safe at 2.25ppm for a full 30 days and keep an eye on ammonia levels . Coppsafe starts to take effect at 2.0ppm

we dont have cuppersafe in sweden, so I will go for pure cuppersulfate. No problem, I have done it many times and measure every day with photometer.
I have good experience with formaline, no fish death so far. The solution is that one from bluexxxx, which is very diluted, it contains 0.5 ml 37% formaldehyde in 10 ml water, so 20 times diluted on those bags, so its no problem to handle that (ofcourse with still som care).

reason of my combo is that I will eliminate flukes, and brook, that cupper will not do.

 

[vetteguy53081]

we dont have cuppersafe in sweden, so I will go for pure cuppersulfate. No problem, I have done it many times and measure every day with photometer.
I have good experience with formaline, no fish death so far. The solution is that one from bluexxxx, which is very diluted, it contains 0.5 ml 37% formaldehyde in 10 ml water, so 20 times diluted on those bags, so its no problem to handle that (ofcourse with still som care).

reason of my combo is that I will eliminate flukes, and brook, that cupper will not do.

Sweden, you should have copperpower which works the same. You should also have seachem Cupramin which recommended to be dosed at .45 ppm

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi. Next week my Acanthurus pyroferus will arriive and will be quarantined. All my fish have gone through a protocol but I have done different depending on the fish, like its sensitivity for cupper etc.
I hava basically used 2 methods. None of the are perfect but have worked fine for me with no diseases in my DT so far.
The 2 methods are decribed here. For my coming Acanthurus pyroferus I plan to use "method 2". When I say formaline bath I always mean 200 ppm, in 45 min.

Any comments or inputs are valuable.

Method 1: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. After 7 days I get them another formaline bath, and place back in the QT which meantine has been totally cleaned and 100% new water. Finaly after 2 weeks, I let them go to the DT through a third Formaline bath.
I used this for my :Anthias, juvenile navarchus, bispinosus, goldflake.

Method 2: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. In QT, Cuppersulfate 0.15-0.2 ppm every day for 2 weeks. Passed a second formaline bath after the 14 days QT prior to enter the DT.
This I did on my leucosternon, naso, imperator.

Jonas

I stopped using formalin baths on newly acquired fish, especially those shipped to me - the mortality rate was unacceptably high. It also has severe human health concerns - you should not use it inside a home, as it de-gasses into the room air. Doses for formalin need to be carefully controlled. There are MANY incorrect references online that indicate the dips should be at 250 ppm. That is a grave error! That dose was designed for cold water marine fishes. For tropical marine fishes, the dose for a dip should be 167 ppm for 45 minutes to one hour, with good aeration.

Ionic copper as you describe also has a higher mortality rate than does amine-chelated copper. I'm not sure if you can acquire that product (Coppersafe or Copper Power) but you will find that the mortality rate in using those products at 2.25 ppm is minimal.

My updated quarantine protocol is here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

 

[MnFish1]

Hi. Next week my Acanthurus pyroferus will arriive and will be quarantined. All my fish have gone through a protocol but I have done different depending on the fish, like its sensitivity for cupper etc.
I hava basically used 2 methods. None of the are perfect but have worked fine for me with no diseases in my DT so far.
The 2 methods are decribed here. For my coming Acanthurus pyroferus I plan to use "method 2". When I say formaline bath I always mean 200 ppm, in 45 min.

Any comments or inputs are valuable.

Method 1: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. After 7 days I get them another formaline bath, and place back in the QT which meantine has been totally cleaned and 100% new water. Finaly after 2 weeks, I let them go to the DT through a third Formaline bath.
I used this for my :Anthias, juvenile navarchus, bispinosus, goldflake.

Method 2: Fish go through a formaline bath before enter QT. In QT, Cuppersulfate 0.15-0.2 ppm every day for 2 weeks. Passed a second formaline bath after the 14 days QT prior to enter the DT.
This I did on my leucosternon, naso, imperator.

Jonas

The problem is that your fish might not have had any of the illnesses - so there is no real verification that your protocol 'works'. I.e. brook, etc. I would humbly recommend the QT protocol as per @Jay Hemdal

 

[JonasRoman]

I stopped using formalin baths on newly acquired fish, especially those shipped to me - the mortality rate was unacceptably high. It also has severe human health concerns - you should not use it inside a home, as it de-gasses into the room air. Doses for formalin need to be carefully controlled. There are MANY incorrect references online that indicate the dips should be at 250 ppm. That is a grave error! That dose was designed for cold water marine fishes. For tropical marine fishes, the dose for a dip should be 167 ppm for 45 minutes to one hour, with good aeration.

Ionic copper as you describe also has a higher mortality rate than does amine-chelated copper. I'm not sure if you can acquire that product (Coppersafe or Copper Power) but you will find that the mortality rate in using those products at 2.25 ppm is minimal.

My updated quarantine protocol is here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

I know. I use formaline at 180 ppm

 

[JonasRoman]

The problem is that your fish might not have had any of the illnesses - so there is no real verification that your protocol 'works'. I.e. brook, etc. I would humbly recommend the QT protocol as per @Jay Hemdal

Observation qt versus profylax is a good question. I prefer the later bases on very high possibility this fish has at least crypto as its coming from a shop

 

[JonasRoman]

Thanks for input. I will come back with reports how it goes.

 

[JonasRoman]

Hi my friends. Let me ventilate my mind again versus your good ones. My fish has arrived, and it is in very good condition. It came from Dejong and has only been in the shop for two days. In the shop, they use copper with a concentration of 0.2, so it's therapeutic. It passed the formalin bath at my place at 180 PPM for 40 minutes. It was successful, and the fish is extremely healthy and already eats Artemia with good appetite. I am so hesitant if I really should run copper in a prophylactic manner before symptoms, based on the background. Should I just do an observation quarantine and add copper only if signs of scratching or dots appear? If I do observation only, I will finish with the formalin bath when the fish enters the display tank after two weeks. If the fish had been longer in the shop, I would have used copper even with no symptoms. I have a little difficulty making up my mind here.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi my friends. Let me ventilate my mind again versus your good ones. My fish has arrived, and it is in very good condition. It came from Dejong and has only been in the shop for two days. In the shop, they use copper with a concentration of 0.2, so it's therapeutic. It passed the formalin bath at my place at 180 PPM for 40 minutes. It was successful, and the fish is extremely healthy and already eats Artemia with good appetite. I am so hesitant if I really should run copper in a prophylactic manner before symptoms, based on the background. Should I just do an observation quarantine and add copper only if signs of scratching or dots appear? If I do observation only, I will finish with the formalin bath when the fish enters the display tank after two weeks. If the fish had been longer in the shop, I would have used copper even with no symptoms. I have a little difficulty making up my mind here.

Not trying to sound disagreeable, but, where has this protocol been documented? If you don't have any documentation of its effectiveness, I would not use it. (I know you're going to use it, I'm just saying what I would do). 2 days of copper at 0.2 - doesn't mean anything positive or negative. it is hard to answer your question - since we favor (the fish medics) favor the QT protocol here. If you were asking about a choice, I would just do observation, skip the formalin, and if the fish develops a disease treat that specific disease

 

[JonasRoman]

Not trying to sound disagreeable, but, where has this protocol been documented? If you don't have any documentation of its effectiveness, I would not use it. (I know you're going to use it, I'm just saying what I would do). 2 days of copper at 0.2 - doesn't mean anything positive or negative. it is hard to answer your question - since we favor (the fish medics) favor the QT protocol here. If you were asking about a choice, I would just do observation, skip the formalin, and if the fish develops a disease treat that specific disease

Hi maybe you missunderstand. I'm not talking about specific protocol, I am talking about the same as you; observation quarantine vs strict copper treatment protocol , and here I think I will do the observation based on quite low possibility that the fish is Infected.
What I mean with copper 0.2 ppm in the shop is that if you have a system that has 0.2 ppm for long time back It's very likely that you have no free swimming parasites that can infect the fish that have been in that system for two days. Only possible reason then for infection is that fish is infected from distributor. Not impossible but less likely. That is just more argument for doing the observation quarantine. Ofcourse I convert to treatment qt if signs of symptoms.

But, after reconsidering, I will do another way and actualky do hybride Tank Transfer. Thank you all for input appreciate that very much

 

[BeanAnimal]

Why do you think that it is it less likely that a fish is infected from the distributor? That is the recurring source of the infections to begin with.

 

[JonasRoman]

Why do you think that it is it less likely that a fish is infected from the distributor? That is the recurring source of the infections to begin.

Less likely than average due to a strict rigorous handling from a very well renomed distributor. But again, I do not say it's impossible so do not get stuck in that detail. Ofcourse it can have been infected. It will be obvious in that case well before I transfer to displaytank.

My TT will eliminate risk of crypto and odinium and the intermediate formaline take flukes and brook.
I will do first transfer day 3. Day 6 I will transfer with formaline bath between. After that no more formaline and a last transfer day 9. Then further observation to day 14.

If ich despite this, convert to cupper.

 

[JonasRoman]

Reason I have change my mind from observation quarantine to tank transfer is because I don't want to loose time if the fish are infected. I want to do something from day 0. With this Protocol I know that the fish Is good after 14 days. more work than just observation but now that is my decision. In Sweden many people use only 9 Days Of TT but I know that it is actually four T, thus 12 Days. We will see how I do concerning that.