My PAR levels at peak intensity

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tnyr5

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I'm really puzzled on how you're getting away with these extremely high numbers. If you look at the research....specifically @Dana Riddle 's eloquent work that was presented at MACNA 2016....he showed that Rate of Photosynthesis (in Porites) maxes out at about 115 PAR:

Max Par Rate of Photosynthesis.png


And, once you get past 200 PAR or so, you start getting photoinhibition....slow down of coral growth.

Screenshot 2019-05-12 at 12.42.12 PM.png


His conclusion about light from this study was a PAR between 115-200 for maximum growth rates.

I've got to believe you're in full blown photoinhibition in your tank, similar to what Dana found mid-day in the shallow tidal pools.

If interested..... and I've linked this video so many times, I'm going to have to start paying royalties....here is the entire talk from Dana.



In part, because of this talk, I've increased flow in my tank (5 foot 90 gallon tank) by having four MP40's and one MP10...and considering adding one more MP10. In addition, I've turned my lights down. I used, what I call "the Poor man's PAR meter"....in fact, a LUX meter...that I purchased for less than $15. My corals grow like weeds! It is my opinion that this video should be mandatory viewing by all new reefers.

I'd be curious to hear about your coral growth after, let's say, three months.

20190115_135617-01.jpeg

This coral would be a brown turd at 200 par lol.
 
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Forgot to answer your other question MnFish1. The tank is a 20 x 20 x 20 cube with two mp10s (soon to be 4). I keep parameters in this range:
Alk 9.5 -10 dKH
Ca 420-440ppm
Mg 1350 - 1370ppm
K 400-420ppm
NO3 15-20ppm
PO4 .1-.2ppm
 

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Valid skepticism, so I took some other measurements ( all values approximate):

Apogee mq-200, all values in air

-5:30-5:40pm sunlight in central PA, light Cirrus cloud cover (blue sky except for clouds in front of sun of course): 900-1400 depending upon the density of the cloud blocking the sun
-Ushio 14k 400w metal halide, new, in 20in lumenarc reflector with icecap 400w ballast, approximate distance measured from rim of reflector:
2700 @ 0"
700 @ 12"
300 @ 25"
- 6 bulb normal output 40w flourescent fixture with individual reflectors from lowes, bulbs 14 months old:
200 @ 12", 250-270 in the hotspots
Honestly - im not sure what all this means LOL - but I assume it means your values in your tank are correct?
 

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I would like @Dana Riddle would respond. My interpretation of his talk at MACNA - was that - thought light levels FAR exceeded that what was needed for photosynthesis - the coral still thrived - but merely didnt grow any faster. This may totally be my misinterpretation. BTW - this only concerened the coral used in the testing - not 'every Coral. (@redfishbluefish )
 

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About a month ago, I decided to add two more Radions to my previous lighting over my 20 x 20 x 20in cube to bring the total to 4. (2 x gen2 pro, 1x gen4 pro, 1 x XR15 pro in the center).
They run from 11am to midnight, with an hour in the morning being ramp up (where only the gen4pro is on) and 2 hours in the evening being night viewing. The rest of the time, all 4 are running at the following settings: purples (& uv) 100, royal blues 70, windex blues 70, whites 70 (for gen4s cool white 60, warm white 100), greens 70, reds 100. Intensity is always 100%, and for about an hour each day, everything ramps up to full blast. These are my PAR levels during that hour.
60141010_10119228443546884_1417783882824024064_o.jpeg
So this lighting system is only a month old? Have you noticed faster growth? More uptake of alk, cal and mag?
 
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Honestly - im not sure what all this means LOL - but I assume it means your values in your tank are correct?
No, can't prove that with the tools at my disposal. All I can say is that the numbers I'm seeing for everything else I measure are plausible.
 

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There are some corals that burn up at 500 par. There may be some that can handle as much par as you have but there are lots that can't. As others have asked...what par/pur meter are you using ?
 

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No, can't prove that with the tools at my disposal. All I can say is that the numbers I'm seeing for everything else I measure are plausible.

get a standard PAR meter - not an estimate - calculator ImHO - im not sure what you're doing.
 

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There are some corals that burn up at 500 par. There may be some that can handle as much par as you have but there are lots that can't. As others have asked...what par/pur meter are you using ?
which corals would those be? That automatically burn up at 500 PAR?

I Think you're right BTW some deep water corals rapidly exposed to 10 times the normal light. But - its a generalization (IMHO). you can not say 'coral a' burns up at 'x par'. You have to take flow and alkalinity into account - among other things iMHO
 
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So this lighting system is only a month old? Have you noticed faster growth? More uptake of alk, cal and mag?
The previous lighting was just the two gen2 radions. Consumption went from the equivalent of 65mL per day of 2 part (I make it more concentrated than Randy's recipe) to 100mL/day.
 

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WOW that is a ton of light! Makes my 2 XR30G4Pro and 1 XR15G4Pro on my 48x22x22 seem like nothing. I guess I need to add at least 2 more xr30s haha
 
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get a standard PAR meter - not an estimate - calculator ImHO - im not sure what you're doing.
As I said, I'm using an Apogee MQ-200. I can't get another one easily, and because of the weather, can't check it against clear-day overhead sunlight to see if it is reading significantly high in general, so why don't we table this question until I can borrow Sanjay's LiCor spectroradiometer. In the meantime, considering that there are 4 radions over a 20 x 20 area, that they average 4in above the tank and were running full blast when measured, that they are angled so that their spreads overlap, that the tank is only 20in deep, and that the highest numbers are for corals that only 3 to 4in under the surface, do you agree that it is unlikely these figures are high by more than, say, 15%?
 
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Your mistrust of my meter's calibration, whether misplaced or not (and it may not be), implies that my measurements make no logical sense, correct? If so, is the reason why because you believe that 4 radions aimed at a central point cannot produce 1500 par +/- 15% at approximately 7in distance?
 

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I would like @Dana Riddle would respond. My interpretation of his talk at MACNA - was that - thought light levels FAR exceeded that what was needed for photosynthesis - the coral still thrived - but merely didnt grow any faster. This may totally be my misinterpretation. BTW - this only concerened the coral used in the testing - not 'every Coral. (@redfishbluefish )
I'll try to keep this short. ;) The Porites coral in those procedures was deliberately chosen since it could be cut into multiple plugs (frags) that offered a relatively flat surface for testing with the fluorometer. Secondly, it was the predominant coral in the tidepool was only inches deep - this would allow examination of how this coral species had adapted to an intense light field (likely as much as any coral would ever experience in Hawaii.) The results - this Porites coral had not adapted to intense light - it still reached photosaturation at a low value. The surfaces most exposed to sunlight were bleached and shaded areas contained the most chlorophyll. These fist-sized tidepool corals were stunted in growth when compared to deeper water corals (some 'deep' Porites are as big as a house.) Now, to look at other factors. The Porites in these procedures contained Clade C15 zooxanthellae. It is tolerant of high light and temperature - to a point of course! Some other clades are highly adaptable to light intensity - some very poorly so. A Hawaiian coral - Pocillopora molokensis - is a deep water species and would certainly die if placed in this tidepool (even if allowable to slowly adapt.) Another factor is branching - this offers a great deal of self-shading where some areas are exposed to strong light while shaded areas experience just a fraction of PPFD seen by the topside areas. Hence, a PAR meter could report 1,000 - but turn the probe upside down and you'll see what a shaded areas might experience. A third point - coloration, especially the non-fluorescent chromoproteins. The are often mauve, purple, blue, reddish. If mauve or purple, the preferentially reflect blue and red light - those wavelengths essential to photosynthesis. Obviously red and blue pigments selectively reflect light important to photosynthesis.
 

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I don't think I've posted this info before = photosaturation points for various corals. Bear in mind that the light intensity required for saturation decreases as depth increases - this accounts for some of low values seen in some of the Acropora species. The high value seen (Porites lutea) was from a purple shallow-water specimen. The only super high value seen was in Tridacna clams - give these guys as much light as you can.
upload_2019-5-17_9-2-55.png

I'm really puzzled on how you're getting away with these extremely high numbers. If you look at the research....specifically @Dana Riddle 's eloquent work that was presented at MACNA 2016....he showed that Rate of Photosynthesis (in Porites) maxes out at about 115 PAR:

Max Par Rate of Photosynthesis.png


And, once you get past 200 PAR or so, you start getting photoinhibition....slow down of coral growth.

Screenshot 2019-05-12 at 12.42.12 PM.png


His conclusion about light from this study was a PAR between 115-200 for maximum growth rates.

I've got to believe you're in full blown photoinhibition in your tank, similar to what Dana found mid-day in the shallow tidal pools.

If interested..... and I've linked this video so many times, I'm going to have to start paying royalties....here is the entire talk from Dana.



In part, because of this talk, I've increased flow in my tank (5 foot 90 gallon tank) by having four MP40's and one MP10...and considering adding one more MP10. In addition, I've turned my lights down. I used, what I call "the Poor man's PAR meter"....in fact, a LUX meter...that I purchased for less than $15. My corals grow like weeds! It is my opinion that this video should be mandatory viewing by all new reefers.

I'd be curious to hear about your coral growth after, let's say, three months.
 

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I don't think I've posted this info before = photosaturation points for various corals. Bear in mind that the light intensity required for saturation decreases as depth increases - this accounts for some of low values seen in some of the Acropora species. The high value seen (Porites lutea) was from a purple shallow-water specimen. The only super high value seen was in Tridacna clams - give these guys as much light as you can.
upload_2019-5-17_9-2-55.png
Any idea about tenuis?
 

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