My sps tank is crashing

[Macdaddynick1]

Reef biology states that corals with growth are not necessarily of good health; it is well known science that high nutrients affects coral health. Introduce an unknown stressor to corals in a high nutrient environment will liking have bad effects.

Yes, the current trend is following “the guy” with some nice corals, a loud voice, and high nutrients vs known researched science. I’m thinking your high po4 is one of a few liking causes, including low pH.

Do you mean fast coral growth not a good indicator of growth? Can we see the research to see if this applies in this case?

Can we please see the reserch regarding the nutrients also, and what is High nutrients according to them? Excessive GFO use with corals that are used to higher po4 is wayy more likely to cause RTN than .6 form .4 in po4.

 

[sjfishguy]

Nitrates are fine. Turn off your gfo, make sure the alk stays stable preferably around 7 and do nothing else for a week. Feed extra! Get those nutrients back in there. Let the phosphate creep back up a little over time. This was the only thing that helped me.

 

[CHSUB]

Excessive GFO use with corals that are used to higher po4 is wayy more likely to cause RTN than .6 form .4 in po4

Op state he is using 1/2 recommended amount…

I could list years of data and research for experts in the field with numerous citations, however it always comes back to: “that is the ocean and reef tanks are different” or “Joe Blow has nice coral with X level of nutrients”…you seem to believe differently. I’m giving my opinion based on books written by Sprung and Borneman others can follow Joe Blow….

 

[BriansBrain]

Just really want to thank everyone for their helpful and experienced input. I’m going to take this as a learning experience and use advice here to slow down, stop the bleeding, and move forward with what I can.

My next system in the works has a much more robust mechanical filtration. My goal is to maintain lower nutrient levels.

This evening I removed/trimmed back some things that were showing signs of rtn/stn. Hopeful to salvage some and potentially stop the dominoes falling. Sucks, but onwards!

 

[BriansBrain]

Nitrates are fine. Turn off your gfo, make sure the alk stays stable preferably around 7 and do nothing else for a week. Feed extra! Get those nutrients back in there. Let the phosphate creep back up a little over time. This was the only thing that helped me.

My phosphates are very high though, unless the Hanna checker is wrong. Started GFO at the 1/2 the recommended amount because my phosphate was 0.6

 

[CHSUB]

It is quite a bummer seeing all the removed corals…I’m not sure what happened, but imo having high nutrients do not help. Your levels are thousands percent higher than natural levels and simple not necessary. Running a system with adequate nutrients does not mean using carbon dosing or zeolites to super charge bacteria to strip levels so low it starves corals. It can be accomplished by feeding corals and fish so nothing gets wasted, cleaning detritus during WC, cleaning mechanical filters often, using a protein skimmer, and not over stocking with fish. My levels are barely detectable and I’m doing nothing special to maintain them. I think your “new” approach to get lower nutrients may help but it is not a silver bullet just a better approach.

 

[sjfishguy]

Nitrates are fine. Turn off your gfo, make sure the alk stays stable preferably around 7 and do nothing else for a week. Feed extra! Get those nutrients back in there. Let the phosphate creep back up a little over time. This was the only thing that helped me.

My phosphates are very high though, unless the Hanna checker is wrong. Started GFO at the 1/2 the recommended amount because my phosphate was 0.6

Doesn’t matter. You are changing it too fast. Shut it off and let things stabilize. Then you can turn it back on in a few weeks with a real slow flow and bring it down slow

 

[RelaxingWithTheReef]

I am sorry for your loss.

With the rtn/stn going on for over a month, and starting from mostly burnt tips, it is my experience that this is a water chemistry issue. I am not too concerned with 0.60 phosphate. The pH is low, and that likely indicates high CO2 in the room, but I don’t think that is the root cause.

GFO is a magnet when it comes to trace elements as shown below.

I think the tank has been suffering from a long term trace element deficiency, possibly Iron. This can happen for poorly understood reasons in some tanks even with reasonable water changes and feeding. Other suspects are Manganese, Cobalt, Zinc, Copper, Vanadium, Nickel, and Chromium. There can also be a toxin present.

Have you been doing water changes? Do you dose trace elements? Do you use activated carbon? Do you run UV? Do you run a refugium or algae turf scrubber? Please post your ICP results.

Stabilizing and reversing the situation is obviously challenging.

In addition to water changes, I would try Brightwell Aquatics – Ferrion. Don’t follow the direction as it's way too much iron. Only 1-2 drops per 50 gal will bring the iron back to natural seawater level. It depletes quickly so do this for a couple days in a row. If that was the problem, you will see an immediate improvement. After that, just once or twice a week should do it.

If you are not dosing trace then TM A- and K+ elements is excellent, and always highly recommended.

 

[Dburr1014]

Is like to share my experience that I'm going through right now.
I have been neglecting my tank since the beginning of the year, well, not neglecting, just not paying the attention it normally gets. I didn't test anything from December 3rd until two weeks ago. We have had quite the year and some real pressing things have taken all my time up.
Anyway, couple weeks ago I noticed some burnt tips. To my system, anyone's system, it's was unusual. I also been noticing a low pH. It's been dipping to mid 7's instead of the normal 8.1/8.3 even though I did keep up with the kalk reactor. I tested and found my alk at 5.5(i didn't think that was even possible). Everything else was fine. Cal low 400's, po4 0.1, no3 zero(always, normal for me).
So what I did was clip the effected ends, bump up alk 1dkh for 2 days. I also shut off 2 t5's I have on the tank for a couple days, the rest are led.
I have a couple pieces that dulled in color and my yellow Porites is not looking well, probably lose it, we'll see.
I did check my alk again last week and it was at 7.1 so I bumped that up again 1 dkh over the coarse of 2 days.
I went on a trip this last week end and last night I see the tips have recovered, color not bad but could be better. The Porites, well, we will see as I said.

Low pH can be from low alk. I would verify that result and work on that pH.
Correct things that are wrong slowly. But if you have one way out of whack, get it fixed promptly, at least to the low end of the spectrum. Coral are resilient but also need to be in the correct Spectrums or they will be stressed.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I’ve been dealing with this rtn/stn event for over a month now. It’s so dang disappointing to watch years of hard work and passion get thrown in the garbage. Seems like every couple of days that I come home from work, another colony is pealing that had looked to be struggling.

I just don’t know if I should cut my losses and throw out the struggling colonies to maybe stop the spread if it’s bacterial or something?

All stn started from mostly burnt tips, but some have just rtn pealed away.

My culprits I can put a finger on:

• Very low pH lows for several weeks. Lows of 7.6 to 7.55. Normally 8.3-8.1.
• High phosphate 0.60 (Hanna ULR phosphate). My system always seemed to run high though at 0.3-0.4.

Things to note:

1. I’ve ran an ICP and nothing negative of importance
2. I have not noticed any rusting deteriorating equipment
3. Alkalinity normally sits around 8-8.5 and the highest I’ve seen it spike to was 9.4 over a few days because I adjusted dosing daily down
4. I ordered (waiting to receive) a phosphate checker standard to cross check the accuracy of the checker itself. Maybe my phosphate aren’t actually that high. I’m running GFO thinking it’s high, but it’s actually very low. Just a thought.
5. I have no algae for being such high phosphates.
6. Only sps affected

I have a new system currently being built and was looking forward to filling it with these corals.

The last nice picture I have of this tank 5/26/25.

Something similar happened to my tank about year ago and I lost most of the SPS coral.

There was nothing to be found with any tests, at the end of the day I put it down to some bacterial infection.

Sometimes they just happen out of nowhere.

The good news is that many of the coral have magically come back from the stumps that were left in the tank after I snapped off and tossed most of them away.

 

[bubbgee]

Something similar happened to my tank about year ago and I lost most of the SPS coral.

There was nothing to be found with any tests, at the end of the day I put it down to some bacterial infection.

Sometimes they just happen out of nowhere.

The good news is that many of the coral have magically come back from the stumps that were left in the tank after I snapped off and tossed most of them away.

Did you just ride out the bacterial infection? I am struggling with random STN/RTN right now and that was mentioned to be as a culprit.

 

[BriansBrain]

I believe my issue lies solely with my doing over the past few months. I’ve been looking through my operating notes, apex data trends, and what the helpful folks said on this thread. I do try and keep good notes on things I do/change for this very reason.

My theory to my sps losses:

1. Early March I had moved some fish that outgrew my 60 cube to this tank. No addition in filtration. Space is tight so there no way to add bigger skimmer, roller mat etc. I tried to start up chaeto but it just melted away.
2. By end of May I had noticed some of the acros losing color. Tested phosphates and they were 0.5. They had doubled that month, so I started GFO. Since then, nutrients have remained elevated.
3. Instead of using my gfo reactor, like I normally do, I was lazy and put 1/2 the recommended amount into a media bag into the bubble trap.
4. Gfo used in that manner caused large up and down trends furthering stress.
5. Summer neglect of tank. Hot humid summer so house was buttoned up, co2 media long exhausted, and Kalk stirrer also depleted.
6. pH dumped to lows of 7.58 leading to further stress/issues possible alkalinity swings (none really detected from trident. Raised from low 8s dkh to a high of 9.3). But not ruling all swings out.
7. No water changes for over a month ( I usually do 15% weekly- 20% biweekly)
8. Early-Mid July is when I noticed burnt tips and rtn/stn. My initial reaction was a bad magnet or source water. So I sent out an icp (nothing really concerning) and changed all RODI filters.
9. I then did a large 40% water change. With a large WC, a lot of the corals were obviously out of the water. I literally watched the pigments and flesh of two small colonies come right off with the rising water. Should’ve taken a picture. One was a super bright suharsonoi - the surface of the water was glowing green from it’s pigments. The corals were already unhealthy so that immediately did them in.
10. Turned down lighting and ran carbon
11. I continued gfo and issues kept coming. I was stupidly not putting 2 and 2 together that this was a leading issue. Things would stabilize, I’d test phosphate, phosphates would be high then add gfo again. Then another colony dies.
12. Possible bacterial infections led to some stn/rtn from weak coral health.

That’s a lot to read, but I put it here for others and myself for future reference. Of course I can’t say 100% but that’s what I pieced together.

For now, simple 10% weekly water changes, pulled gfo, and monitor major elements and nutrients, with reduced lighting. I may run carbon for a few days here and there.

 

[SeaDweller]

It is quite a bummer seeing all the removed corals…I’m not sure what happened, but imo having high nutrients do not help. Your levels are thousands percent higher than natural levels and simple not necessary. Running a system with adequate nutrients does not mean using carbon dosing or zeolites to super charge bacteria to strip levels so low it starves corals. It can be accomplished by feeding corals and fish so nothing gets wasted, cleaning detritus during WC, cleaning mechanical filters often, using a protein skimmer, and not over stocking with fish. My levels are barely detectable and I’m doing nothing special to maintain them. I think your “new” approach to get lower nutrients may help but it is not a silver bullet just a better approach.

People dont realize that these higher levels of N and P are not natural and likely could be toxic, "although they're doing ok in those levels". It's hard to argue against it when Joe Blow DOES have some pretty colors, but the growth isn't there, or Joe Blow's corals aren't actively dying (yet). However, if you've been in this long enough (as I KNOW you have been, me too), there's just not enough justification (experience) to run these "acceptable" higher levels. In fact, it's just not needed.

This thread is a prime example, I feel, of Murphy's Law. Things compounding until it gives way: high N, P, low PH, high-ish Alk... corals and systems can probably deal with one of the listed issues, but NOT ALL at one time. Also, people shying away from running lower N and P levels, simply don't know how to do it, imo. Throughput, throughput, throughput. Heavy in, heavy out, leaving what is needed in the tank. Very different than feeding little and heavy export.

You get it.

 

[CHSUB]

People dont realize that these higher levels of N and P are not natural and likely could be toxic, "although they're doing ok in those levels". It's hard to argue against it when Joe Blow DOES have some pretty colors, but the growth isn't there, or Joe Blow's corals aren't actively dying (yet). However, if you've been in this long enough (as I KNOW you have been, me too), there's just not enough justification (experience) to run these "acceptable" higher levels. In fact, it's just not needed.

This thread is a prime example, I feel, of Murphy's Law. Things compounding until it gives way: high N, P, low PH, high-ish Alk... corals and systems can probably deal with one of the listed issues, but NOT ALL at one time. Also, people shying away from running lower N and P levels, simply don't know how to do it, imo. Throughput, throughput, throughput. Heavy in, heavy out, leaving what is needed in the tank. Very different than feeding little and heavy export.

You get it.

So many great points and imo perfectly describes the OP situation….

Very different than feeding little and heavy export.

I think in the recent past nutrients were pushed too low by reefers with supercharging bacteria using carbon dosing, sulfur, or zoalites, including myself; however now people have gone too far in the other direction. Maintaining low but available nutrients is easy with the tried and proven methods of skimming and WC…..feed heavy but only what is required and remove what is not consumed.

Good stuff!!

 

[gbroadbridge]

People dont realize that these higher levels of N and P are not natural and likely could be toxic, "although they're doing ok in those levels".

Life finds a way. Biology 101.

 

[Addicted2Acro]

I think your main problem is alkalinity spike and maybe your either running GFO to fast or the tank is strip of phosphate thats what burn tip signs could be and its exactly what you describing

The ALK spike isnt the main problem. I assume these issues started before that happened.

 

[eggie]

The ALK spike isnt the main problem. I assume these issues started before that happened.

Its a mix of issues. When you have Alk spike and the corals are struggling with no phosphate they tend to show signs of burn tips. I experimented the same issue in the past

I have had ALk spikes down and up with higher po4 with no issues to my sps.
This is my expirience

 

[eggie]

Did you just ride out the bacterial infection? I am struggling with random STN/RTN right now and that was mentioned to be as a culprit.

@bubbgee Im going to send you a link of a method I use if you want to try it for bacterial infection I use it n the past with success. check you message

 

[eggie]

I believe my issue lies solely with my doing over the past few months. I’ve been looking through my operating notes, apex data trends, and what the helpful folks said on this thread. I do try and keep good notes on things I do/change for this very reason.

My theory to my sps losses:

1. Early March I had moved some fish that outgrew my 60 cube to this tank. No addition in filtration. Space is tight so there no way to add bigger skimmer, roller mat etc. I tried to start up chaeto but it just melted away.
2. By end of May I had noticed some of the acros losing color. Tested phosphates and they were 0.5. They had doubled that month, so I started GFO. Since then, nutrients have remained elevated.
3. Instead of using my gfo reactor, like I normally do, I was lazy and put 1/2 the recommended amount into a media bag into the bubble trap.
4. Gfo used in that manner caused large up and down trends furthering stress.
5. Summer neglect of tank. Hot humid summer so house was buttoned up, co2 media long exhausted, and Kalk stirrer also depleted.
6. pH dumped to lows of 7.58 leading to further stress/issues possible alkalinity swings (none really detected from trident. Raised from low 8s dkh to a high of 9.3). But not ruling all swings out.
7. No water changes for over a month ( I usually do 15% weekly- 20% biweekly)
8. Early-Mid July is when I noticed burnt tips and rtn/stn. My initial reaction was a bad magnet or source water. So I sent out an icp (nothing really concerning) and changed all RODI filters.
9. I then did a large 40% water change. With a large WC, a lot of the corals were obviously out of the water. I literally watched the pigments and flesh of two small colonies come right off with the rising water. Should’ve taken a picture. One was a super bright suharsonoi - the surface of the water was glowing green from it’s pigments. The corals were already unhealthy so that immediately did them in.
10. Turned down lighting and ran carbon
11. I continued gfo and issues kept coming. I was stupidly not putting 2 and 2 together that this was a leading issue. Things would stabilize, I’d test phosphate, phosphates would be high then add gfo again. Then another colony dies.
12. Possible bacterial infections led to some stn/rtn from weak coral health.

That’s a lot to read, but I put it here for others and myself for future reference. Of course I can’t say 100% but that’s what I pieced together.

For now, simple 10% weekly water changes, pulled gfo, and monitor major elements and nutrients, with reduced lighting. I may run carbon for a few days here and there.

Were you dosing or did you dose any kind of amino acid ?

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Look into Witch Hazel treatment:

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