My Tank Feels like it's Going Downhill

[Reefer37]

So let me give a little background.
I started this hobby for the first time about 7 months ago. I knew starting out this hobby would be a challenge, but it was something I was ready for.
I cleaned out a JBJ45 I picked off Craigslist, set it up. Cycled for 2 weeks using a combo of live sand and bottled bacteria with dry rock. First residents were a clown, couple snails, and a red legged hermit.

Fast forward to today, I have 2 clowns, a bicolor blenny, Randall's goby/tiger pistol shrimp pair, a firefish, about 37 corals and a rock anemone.

Lately things have not started looking that great and I've noticed that things just aren't growing right now. What's weird is some things look great, while others looks awful, but ultimately they're all not really growing.
I've had zoas that would pop a new head or two every week or so, no longer growing. An acan that had 3 new heads growing in, that lost them. Toadstool who is no longer really extending polyps. A newly added monti digi that was looking great for about 2 weeks and now looks like it's dying off. Cloves that won't open up (I mean c'mon they're practically a pest).

I spend almost all my free time researching, or doing stuff with my tank. I know stability is key and it's pretty much my baby.
I test regularly, dose regularly, water change every two weeks, clean all major equipment about once a month. I feel like I've done everything right, but it doesn't feel like I'm getting the return of the work invested.

I think possibly my biggest issue is not having an RODI system and getting water through my LFS. There's a couple reasons for this though. The house we are renting was built in 1950 and the water pressure is atrocious as we are smack dab in the middle of two of the biggest main water lines in the city, which intersect right at our house.
I've indepth talked with my local LFS, which had a very clean shop and uses Fritz salt. I test the water after a water change every time and usually things stay pretty stable. Last water change was a .5 dip in ALK, and usually it's around there.
I'm not sure if this could be part of the reason, but I haven't made any changes on when I do a water change and where I get my water. Up until this point the day after a water change everything is usually a lot happier, but not this time.

Here's my tank parameters as of last night:
Salinity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
Calcium: 440
Alk: 7.7
Mag: 1410
Phosphates: .02 (I know this is pretty low, probably due to WC day before, usually hovers around .06-.1)

What am I missing?

I want to succeed, but it's hard when I see so many great tanks and look at mine and feel disappointed because it doesn't reflect the work I feel I've put in.
Nothing equipment wise had changed in months. The same lighting schedule, flow, powerheads, water, etc. So I really feel at a loss.

 

[PRock]

Have you thought about running an ICP test? If you're doing maintenance and water changes and things still aren't happy, I'd be wondering if there's something funky going on in the tank, either from something in the house or something unexpected from the LFS water.

 

[Blknovass]

What is the tank temp? What are you feeding? Are you dosing anything? In my tank I run my salinity at 1.027 you might be a tad low also have u changed lighting at all?

 

[kyleinpdx]

I may be in the minority, but black sand always scares me, IMO if its black, there are ferrous metals hiding somewhere in there. Have you done an ICP test (where you send water away to be tested)? I would attach a strong magnet to a stick and sift through your sandbed, does it pull anything out?

I personally think we're on the cusp of a revolution in this hobby (and the wider world but thats another thread) in terms of biodiversity and the microbiome. We're trying to take incredibly complex systems with thousands upon thousands of inputs and outputs and cram them into a small glass box.

If all of the standard things are in line (parameters, lighting, flow, feeding schedule, etc) and it were me, I'd first try increasing your biodiversity, go see algaebarn or pod my reef and get some pods, find some cheato or caulerpa from a local reefer and throw that in the display for a day or two, see about getting some "miracle mud" from one of the many suppliers. Dose some aminos (acropower) and maybe some phyto. Give it a few weeks and see if things turn around. I'm sure others will have good info, but if I were you, thats the course of action I would take first. GL.

 

[F i s h y]

Reef tanks are long distance marathons not sprints. I may have an unpopular opinion on this one but a lot has changed in your tank in 7 short months. An increase in bio load, a large increase in nutrient export, dosing, water changes, water quality, your tank isn't "stable" in the big picture long term definition. There is a lot going on in there biologically. My best advice is to slow down, figure out your current situation and maintain it. For a long period of time before adding or changing anything else. I agree an ICP test should be done, you should also look at what foods you are feeding your fish. The supplements you are using for your coral, etc. The main thing right now is to maintain....

Just my .02

 

[robbyg]

If you want my hard honest opinion then I would say you have gone way to fast with your tank.
Your just starting to enter a rather bad phase of GHA and other issues. That is why for the first year it is best to keep nothing except a few fish until you get past the GHA and Diatoms and all the other plagues. These issues are even harder to deal with if at the same time you are trying to keep coral alive.

 

[Reefer37]

Reef tanks are long distance marathons not sprints. I may have an unpopular opinion on this one but a lot has changed in your tank in 7 short months. An increase in bio load, a large increase in nutrient export, dosing, water changes, water quality, your tank isn't "stable" in the big picture long term definition. There is a lot going on in there biologically. My best advice is to slow down, figure out your current situation and maintain it. For a long period of time before adding or changing anything else. I agree an ICP test should be done, you should also look at what foods you are feeding your fish. The supplements you are using for your coral, etc. The main thing right now is to maintain....

Just my .02

If you want my hard honest opinion then I would say you have gone way to fast with your tank.
Your just starting to enter a rather bad phase of GHA and other issues. That is why for the first year it is best to keep nothing except a few fish until you get past the GHA and Diatoms and all the other plagues. These issues are even harder to deal with if at the same time you are trying to keep coral alive.

While I agree with both you that things might have moved "quickly", I see people with tanks this old doing much better and with far more corals and fish. I guess what they have on me is experience, but even still I think every one has an opinion on what's fast and what's slow. I've done a lot to "maintain" a lot of these levels at about the same with very little change. You guys keep saying I need stability, but what exactly am I doing wrong? I understand the advice to slow down. While I understand what you're saying and in part agree, the numbers don't lie and I know a lot of people have differing opinions on when corals should be added. I went through the diatom phase months ago. Essentially I shouldn't have added corals until after a year is what you guys are saying?

 

[Reefer37]

I may be in the minority, but black sand always scares me, IMO if its black, there are ferrous metals hiding somewhere in there. Have you done an ICP test (where you send water away to be tested)? I would attach a strong magnet to a stick and sift through your sandbed, does it pull anything out?

I personally think we're on the cusp of a revolution in this hobby (and the wider world but thats another thread) in terms of biodiversity and the microbiome. We're trying to take incredibly complex systems with thousands upon thousands of inputs and outputs and cram them into a small glass box.

If all of the standard things are in line (parameters, lighting, flow, feeding schedule, etc) and it were me, I'd first try increasing your biodiversity, go see algaebarn or pod my reef and get some pods, find some cheato or caulerpa from a local reefer and throw that in the display for a day or two, see about getting some "miracle mud" from one of the many suppliers. Dose some aminos (acropower) and maybe some phyto. Give it a few weeks and see if things turn around. I'm sure others will have good info, but if I were you, thats the course of action I would take first. GL.

This is some great advice, and I agree a lot.

I never thought about the sand being a possible problem, there definitely is magnetic metals in there because when I try to clean the tank sometimes things stick to the glass cleaner.

I'm going to look into an ICP test and go from there.

Nothing else is getting added until I figure out what's going on. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Dylan McKenzie Holloway]

This is some great advice, and I agree a lot.

I never thought about the sand being a possible problem, there definitely is magnetic metals in there because when I try to clean the tank sometimes things stick to the glass cleaner.

I'm going to look into an ICP test and go from there.

Nothing else is getting added until I figure out what's going on. Thanks for the advice!

If you think their are heavy metals in your tank maybe try a poly filter to see if you can determine if their are any metals

 

[Reefer37]

What is the tank temp? What are you feeding? Are you dosing anything? In my tank I run my salinity at 1.027 you might be a tad low also have u changed lighting at all?

Runs at 78 degrees, I feed a mixture of Rod's food, flakes, and pellets, as well as I use Reef Roids and Red Sea A+B Aminos for corals.

I've always read and heard ideal salinity is 1.025-1.026, with the higher it is the more stress it can cause if other parameters are off.

Also, I already said I did not change anything in terms of lighting in the OP and I dose Red Sea 3 part.

 

[kyleinpdx]

While I agree with both you that things might have moved "quickly", I see people with tanks this old doing much better and with far more corals and fish. I guess what they have on me is experience, but even still I think every one has an opinion on what's fast and what's slow. I've done a lot to "maintain" a lot of these levels at about the same with very little change. You guys keep saying I need stability, but what exactly am I doing wrong? I understand the advice to slow down. While I understand what you're saying and in part agree, the numbers don't lie and I know a lot of people have differing opinions on when corals should be added. I went through the diatom phase months ago. Essentially I shouldn't have added corals until after a year is what you guys are saying?

In my opinion, folks often use "time" as an analog for "maturity" and by maturity I/they mean enough inputs and outputs to sustain a diverse ecosystem. There are a heck of a lot more inputs in nature than just light, 02, fish food and Ca/Alk/Mag (that's not to say that's all YOU are doing, just generalizing here).

I'd make a bet that if we siphoned up some of @Paul B or @Lasse or any of the old timers (that designation is with affection!) sand/rock and threw a few drops under a microscope we'd see an immense amount if diverse life. I believe that is what truly drives success.

 

[robbyg]

While I agree with both you that things might have moved "quickly", I see people with tanks this old doing much better and with far more corals and fish. I guess what they have on me is experience, but even still I think every one has an opinion on what's fast and what's slow. I've done a lot to "maintain" a lot of these levels at about the same with very little change. You guys keep saying I need stability, but what exactly am I doing wrong? I understand the advice to slow down. While I understand what you're saying and in part agree, the numbers don't lie and I know a lot of people have differing opinions on when corals should be added. I went through the diatom phase months ago. Essentially I shouldn't have added corals until after a year is what you guys are saying?

I have been involved in at least 60 tanks being installed over the last 25 years and if I said to you that I know exactly what is going on I would be lying. What I think is happening is that most people assume the cycling of the tank is just going through the Ammonia to Nitrate phase but I believe there are many other chemical phases that happen. Most of them have to do with the rock and sand itself and developing bacteria that does things we may not yet fully understand. No matter, the end result is that at some point around the first year the tank will start to go south and that period will last anywhere from three months to a year! The tank will go through all the bad phases and it is a good idea not to have to much livestock in the tank when this is going on. This is the critical point where most people throw in the towel because the just don't have the patience to deal with all the issues.

 

[Blknovass]

Runs at 78 degrees, I feed a mixture of Rod's food, flakes, and pellets, as well as I use Reef Roids and Red Sea A+B Aminos for corals.

I've always read and heard ideal salinity is 1.025-1.026, with the higher it is the more stress it can cause if other parameters are off.

Also, I already said I did not change anything in terms of lighting in the OP and I dose Red Sea 3 part.

Ok so I use to use rods also they have a lot of fat in the mix could be a bit too much for your system. See if you can make the switch to phyto IMO the more natural you can go the better success you will have. I use amino also and have had great luck. Yes I know running 1.027 is on the high scale but has always been there for me so figure don’t fix what’s not broke. How about ur light do you have the ability to adjust brightness?

 

[Reefer37]

If you think their are heavy metals in your tank maybe try a poly filter to see if you can determine if their are any metals

What exactly do you mean? Like use a magnet and grab them with the filter or what?

 

[Reefer37]

Ok so I use to use rods also they have a lot of fat in the mix could be a bit too much for your system. See if you can make the switch to phyto IMO the more natural you can go the better success you will have. I use amino also and have had great luck. Yes I know running 1.027 is on the high scale but has always been there for me so figure don’t fix what’s not broke. How about ur light do you have the ability to adjust brightness?

I only feed Rod's food about once, MAYBE twice a week, so it's not really a lot. In terms of lighting, everything was thriving under this light before and nothing has changed. I rather not change something else and possibly add to the issues. I rather maintain what I have and figure out the root cause cause lighting isn't the problem.

 

[kyleinpdx]

What exactly do you mean? Like use a magnet and grab them with the filter or what?

Poly fill = polyester fibers. Its used as mechanical filtration in your sump or filter chambers. Supposedly you can tell whats in the water by the the tint it develops after some use but I've only ever had it go slightly brown with detritus.

 

[Reefer37]

I have been involved in at least 60 tanks being installed over the last 25 years and if I said to you that I know exactly what is going on I would be lying. What I think is happening is that most people assume the cycling of the tank is just going through the Ammonia to Nitrate phase but I believe there are many other chemical phases that happen. Most of them have to do with the rock and sand itself and developing bacteria that does things we may not yet fully understand. No matter, the end result is that at some point around the first year the tank will start to go south and that period will last anywhere from three months to a year! The tank will go through all the bad phases and it is a good idea not to have to much livestock in the tank when this is going on. This is the critical point where most people throw in the towel because the just don't have the patience to deal with all the issues.

I guess I'll get an ICP test and go from there.
Might just be a waiting and maintaining game.

I just have a hard time getting rid of fish and corals if that's what you're saying I should do.

 

[Reefer37]

Poly fill = polyester fibers. Its used as mechanical filtration in your sump or filter chambers. Supposedly you can tell whats in the water by the the tint it develops after some use but I've only ever had it go slightly brown with detritus.

Interesting! Didn't know that, I just use filter floss from my LFS and cut it to fit my filters in the back. I'll have to look into that.

 

[PRock]

Poly fill = polyester fibers. Its used as mechanical filtration in your sump or filter chambers. Supposedly you can tell whats in the water by the the tint it develops after some use but I've only ever had it go slightly brown with detritus.

I think he's talking about Poly-Filter, it's a product that's used for filtering toxins and all sorts of heavy metals out of aquarium water. You can check it out here https://www.poly-bio-marine.com/

 

[Super Fly]

I'd have to agree w @Fishy65 & @robbyg on this one, that is way too many corals/livestock that any young tank can't support. Even though parameters are spot on, the tank doesn't have sufficient beneficial bacteria to keep up with all the livestock. In my tank, I wait several weeks after adding any livestock for the beneficial bacteria to increase and handle the new load prior to adding anything new. My family was constantly complaining about how boring my tank was w lack of livestock while it was first setting up because it was such a slow process. Now they complain it's got too much coral! lol

Yes those highly experienced reefers do add lots of livestock quick and will be difficult to maintain but I'd hazard to say not many of those tanks are still thriving a year or 2 down the road. What works for others may not work for the rest. IME, Nothing good happens quickly in this hobby, please be patient and you'll get there one day.