Natural vs Unnatural Methods

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A lot of folks comment on whether processes of various sorts that we use in reef tanks are natural or unnatural. I thought it would be interesting to start a discussion of the topic, ignoring the obvious issue of whether natural or unnatural is “better”.

Folks may find some of the answers surprising (e.g., lanthanum for phosphate binding being natural).

For purposes of this thread, I’m defining a method as natural if it happens in the ocean, regardless of whether the extent that it happens is the same, whereas an unnatural process is not something that happens in the ocean.

There are some borderline cases that we can also discuss, such as GAC.

I’ll keep adding to this post as we go forward with an expanding summary. It is too much too add all at once.

Feel free to chime in with ideas and methods to discuss!

Processes with natural equivalents

CaCO3/CO2 reactors (low pH dissolution of calcium carbonate)

Dosing of calcium solutions (rivers, underwater vents, runoff)

Dosing of inorganic alkalinity solutions (rivers, vents, runoff)

Metabolism of organic anions to release alkalinity such as acetate and formate (natural metabolism)


Processes with similar but chemically different natural processes

Polymeric binders such as polyfilter, Purigen or metasorb. Natural organics perform similar functions, but these materials do not exist in the natural ocean.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I suppose it depends on the goals of the reefer. Some people want a natural ocean environment in their aquariums. Others are looking to expand upon nature synthetically, to achieve greater growth, color, health, etc with additives and other methods.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I suppose it depends on the goals of the reefer. Some people want a natural ocean environment in their aquariums. Others are looking to expand upon nature synthetically, to achieve greater growth, color, health, etc with additives and other methods.

Yes, what you choose to use depends on your goals, but what is actually natural and what is not doesn’t change by the aquarist goals.

I’m just looking here to provide info on the latter question, since some folks make unfounded comments in relation to various methods.

 

[CoralClasher]

I would like to here a discussion on skimming versus micro bubble scrubbing. Witch one is more natural?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On phosphate binders, I’d make these assertions:

Natural
Aluminum oxide
Ferric oxide (GFO)
Calcium carbonate/calcium phosphate
Lanthanum ion
iron ions

Unnatural

Polymers like a polyfilter (ignoring the fact that I do not believe it binds inorganic P, but it claims to do it’s on the list)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would like to here a discussion on skimming versus micro bubble scrubbing. Witch one is more natural?

Both are natural processes in the surf zone. Bubbles coated with organics certainly blow onto the shore or become particulate detritus, and small bubbles constantly impinge on many corals in that zone.

I’m not sure how one approaches answering which is “more” natural.

Do you have thoughts on that?

 

[WVNed]

I find I use methods I have found to work and have no unwanted side effects.
The terms natural or unnatural rarely enter my mind.

We are trying to recreate a slice of an ecosystem that in many ways uses unlimited dilution and remote processing of byproducts created in one area in another area.

I kind of expect I am going to have to "cheat" in some ways to be successful. I just try to do it as little as possible.

 

[CoralClasher]

Both are natural processes in the surf zone. Bubbles coated with organics certainly blow onto the shore or become particulate detritus, and small bubbles constantly impinge on many corals in that zone.

I’m not sure how one approaches answering which is “more” natural.

Do you have thoughts on that?

Removing all of the skim material doesn’t sound natural to me. I don’t have a skimmer but I’m debating on getting one. I don’t have a problem with keeping No3 low but phosphate is something that I need to get under control.

 

[Montiman]

In a related story.

When working at an LFS I once had someone come in and ask for an organic iron supplement for their freshwater aquarium. They were asking if product A had organic iron. I asked them if they knew what organic means as none of the supplements with iron were organic. They insisted that they didn't want any of them and would use an organic method instead. I asked them what they were doing and they told me they put rusty nails in their tank. How "organic"

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I think certain things such as striving to replicate as natural a microbiome as possible to support health of livestock is definitely worth taking as natural an approach as possible to

 

[sixty_reefer]

I use synthetic salt, I have no elusion on how unnatural my tank is at the chemical level although I like to rely on some natural methods of filtration including bacteria and algaes to keep nutrients in check and I use artificial nutrients if those go below my acceptable range.

 

[EricR]

ATO? Natural or unnatural?

Natural ocean analogue could be evaporation and rain.

Unnatural part might be that we don't tend to capture our evaporation and re-use it.

*likely not the kind of thing you were looking for,,, but oh well

 

[AydenLincoln]

What are some natural vs unnatural ways to raise pH? Product recommendations? I know opening a window but it’s been hot outside lately and I’d really like to not heat up my house. @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Wtyson254]

I feel like the terms “natural” and “unnatural,” as you describe them are not necessarily the same way many hobbiests describe them. I often see people say “I like to do this naturally, vs ‘adding chemicals.”

 

[Wtyson254]

IMO it’s a distinction without purpose. Many people would see adding
Bactria or using an algae scrubber for phosphate reduction as “natural,” while lanthanun chloride as “unnatural.”

 

[Wtyson254]

Conversely, we (almost) always put fish and coral that would never be found together in nature in the same system.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

IMO it’s a distinction without purpose. Many people would see adding
Bactria or using an algae scrubber for phosphate reduction as “natural,” while lanthanun chloride as “unnatural.”

I think what he's getting at is it is natural and he's trying to accurately define them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Removing all of the skim material doesn’t sound natural to me. I don’t have a skimmer but I’m debating on getting one. I don’t have a problem with keeping No3 low but phosphate is something that I need to get under control.

Well, skimming certainly is happening naturally on a beach or anywhere waves are breaking as are microbubble effects. Neither is happening to any great degree far from breaking waves .

A reef tank may be doing skimming or microbubbling to a greater extent (or not), but that aspect (driving it harder than happens in a typical 100 gallon chunk of ocean) is going to be true of nearly any method we use since we also pack a lot more into it.

As an aside, the microbubble approach certainly has benefits, but it also has some proponent users that grossly oversell it and what it can accomplish, and there's a reason that, while some folks use it and like it, it has not taken over the hobby despite being around for years.

I'm not even sure it is appropriate to trade it off against a skimmer since both work well together. I also don't think either is the best way to go after phosphate alone.

That all said, this thread is not intended to debate which methods are better than others, just which are natural and which are not.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Metabolism of CO2 via photosynthesis
(Via refugium or algae scrubber, or the corals themselves)?

Remember folks- lightning, arsenic, strychnine and botulism are all natural, so I would agree the better or worse argument doesn't really matter here.

 

[BranchingHammer]

Herbivores controlling algae- natural (how I prefer to handle algae)

Targeted chemical treatments (hydrogen peroxide) and algaecides, likely much less natural