Neptune Trident OR Mindstream

[rushbattle]

Sounds like maybe he should queue this up as a future podcast

And if he and his better half drink wine I may have to leave a bottle for him the next time I visit the aquarium.

I'll contribute to that effort!

 

[Thales]

@Centerline As usual, you can trust Rich to give a more poignant and insightful answer than me. I have the same thoughts but my thinking and writing are not clear or as straight the the heart of the matter like Rich’s.

That is amazingly nice of you to say, and really makes a difference for me. Not that I think I am great, but that I often have no idea if my thoughs are useful to people. Thank you so much.

 

[Thales]

What I find surprising is that though most of the companies tout the 'precision' of their devices - they do not mention the 'accuracy' of their devices Some give the impression that because the precision is .05 - that that means alkalinity is measured accurately to .05 (or pick another chemical). Point being the accuracy of the Mindstream is better than hanna, saldiert, etc - We dont know about trident (at least I couldn't find any data on alkalinity accuracy (on the main page - it states accuracy and precision to (I believe .05 dkH) - but in the more detailed section - accuracy is not mentioned - and precision is stated to be .05 dKh.

Right! And that is the stuff people just kind of don't know about. I have written about it, Sanjay did a really great talk about it at MACNA last weekend, and more people are talking about it than ever. Accuracy is incredibly hard to get at, percision is easier. If we talk about it enough, maybe we can get companies to start giving more useful info on their products. We also have to get people to stop chasing numbers and start chasing ranges.

 

[Thales]

Sounds like maybe he should queue this up as a future podcast

And if he and his better half drink wine I may have to leave a bottle for him the next time I visit the aquarium.

You bet that is going on the topic list!

 

[MnFish1]

Right! And that is the stuff people just kind of don't know about. I have written about it, Sanjay did a really great talk about it at MACNA last weekend, and more people are talking about it than ever. Accuracy is incredibly hard to get at, percision is easier. If we talk about it enough, maybe we can get companies to start giving more useful info on their products. We also have to get people to stop chasing numbers and start chasing ranges.

What is interesting is the number of people 'concerned' about their alkalinity going from 8.1 to 8.5 - but then looking at the graphs (which as expected) vary throughout the day. In the past we would wonder 'whats going on - is it the test' - soon we will know - alkalinity varies hour to hour based on light, etc etc. Of course then the debate will start as to whether its best to dose xxx or yyy every 5 minutes to help this remain exactly stable. Its all going to be interesting, no?

 

[bam123]

MACNA2019attendee code no longer working. I hope everyone took advantage of it while they could.

 

[MnFish1]

MACNA2019attendee code no longer working. I hope everyone took advantage of it while they could.

And I hope only the people that attended MACNA got the code - the fact that it was published here - to me seems fraudulent at best - and I guess at worst. Ridiculous... That said - I also think that a start up company - should not just put out a code a MACNA - for those attendees - and I've contacted @MindStream about this as well. I just paid 1000$ for something that others were able to get for 700... And why? Because I wasnt at MACNA. Ridiculous.

 

[ddrueckh]

And I hope only the people that attended MACNA got the code - the fact that it was published here - to me seems fraudulent at best - and I guess at worst. Ridiculous... That said - I also think that a start up company - should not just put out a code a MACNA - for those attendees - and I've contacted @MindStream about this as well. I just paid 1000$ for something that others were able to get for 700... And why? Because I wasnt at MACNA. Ridiculous.

I'm not happy about it either, I contacted them as well and they said sorry but there is nothing they will do about it. I am considering cancelling my order and waiting for another $700 deal. If they did it at MACNA, I'm sure they will do it again somewhere else.

 

[MnFish1]

I'm not happy about it either, I contacted them as well and they said sorry but there is nothing they will do about it. I am considering cancelling my order and waiting for another $700 deal. If they did it at MACNA, I'm sure they will do it again somewhere else.

LOL - well - I wouldn't go that far. Frankly - people asking for codes from those who attended MACNA is to me unethical. Did you attend MACNA? If not - why should you get the code - That said again - it was their mistake to do it this way - they should (IMHO) have offered the code to ALL who ordered during MACNA.

 

[Darrell Brady]

Did you have to be there to get the code or was it a code you could use at home to.

 

[Darrell Brady]

LOL - well - I wouldn't go that far. Frankly - people asking for codes from those who attended MACNA is to me unethical. Did you attend MACNA? If not - why should you get the code - That said again - it was their mistake to do it this way - they should (IMHO) have offered the code to ALL who ordered during MACNA.

I agree.

 

[ddrueckh]

LOL - well - I wouldn't go that far. Frankly - people asking for codes from those who attended MACNA is to me unethical. Did you attend MACNA? If not - why should you get the code - That said again - it was their mistake to do it this way - they should (IMHO) have offered the code to ALL who ordered during MACNA.

I didn't ask for the code...but understand others not wanting to pay full price. Why should I pay $1,000 when they are already discounting it by 30%? I just emailed and cancelled my order. Maybe I will find it for $700 later and order it then...maybe it will never go on sale again. I'm not in a rush to get it. It just doesn't feel right that they are already discounting it by $300. I think they made a mistake and lost a sale because of it for now.

 

[MnFish1]

I didn't ask for the code...but understand others not wanting to pay full price. Why should I pay $1,000 when they are already discounting it by 30%? I just emailed and cancelled my order. Maybe I will find it for $700 later and order it then...maybe it will never go on sale again. I'm not in a rush to get it. It just doesn't feel right that they are already discounting it by $300. I think they made a mistake and lost a sale because of it for now.

Oh - I agree with you - I just called the company to potentially cancel my order as well - But I want to discuss it with them. They can do whatever they want - right? - But so can customers. They only discounted it for a couple days lol. But - again - IMHO - it should have been discounted for everyone.

That said - those begging for codes from the people that attended MACNA - to me are also wrong.

 

[ca1ore]

PS - at one point Neptune was a 'one product company'. Advances only happen when those one product companies become multi product companies. The concern I have with Mindstream - is the patents they hopefully have - to prevent someone else from just copying what they have done.

This made me chuckle. The vast majority of companies begin as single product enterprises, and the majority of them fail. That you chose Neptune as your example fails to account for the nine (give or take) that vanished with nary a whimper (look at the ads in an older version of FAMA if you doubt). I’ve no idea if mindstream will be the one, or amongst the nine. I’ve too much orphaned gear at home (across multiple hobbies). No desire to add to the pile. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Darrell Brady]

its not right for the ones who have already ordered an spent $1000. im still waiting on mine. An I order July !st

 

[MnFish1]

This made me chuckle. The vast majority of companies begin as single product enterprises, and the majority of them fail. That you chose Neptune as your example fails to account for the nine (give or take) that vanished with nary a whimper (look at the ads in an older version of FAMA if you doubt). I’ve no idea if mindstream will be the one, or amongst the nine. I’ve too much orphaned gear at home (across multiple hobbies). No desire to add to the pile. Just my opinion, of course.

Im actually curious for yo to list the 9. Of course companies go under. Im serious - I'm curious. Did that many alkalinity test kits/companies really 'go out of business'. Of course if you're saying that in the entire hobby - companies went out of business - I totally agree. It just wasnt clear

 

[ca1ore]

Im actually curious for yo to list the 9. Of course companies go under. Im serious - I'm curious. Did that many alkalinity test kits/companies really 'go out of business'. Of course if you're saying that in the entire hobby - companies went out of business - I totally agree. It just wasnt clear

I’m not talking about the current crop of testers (don’t think there have been 10 yet). Maybe in 5 years we’ll know that LOL. I was building off your Neptune example as all aquarium/companies. Sorry if that was unclear.

Either way, I’ll be watching people’s experience with mindstream, reefbot, robotank, testorama and automatank with interest (I made up the last three).

 

[Centerline]

I was not clear, as I mentioned above. What I was trying to say is that ICP testing is not a superlative standard by which others can be judged, it’s just as likely that the Trident and MM are at least as good or better. Nobody knows because we haven’t fully characterized their performance yet. My guess is that ICP, MM, and Trident are really good with Ca and Mg. I also suspect that MM and ICP are good at K. What I really care about is whether they correlate with what we are seeing with regards to the animals.

Thanks for the clarification. I've spent so many years and had pretty good results with Hanna checker and the RedSea tests. Its very hard for me to trust anything LOL.

 

[Centerline]

What is interesting is the number of people 'concerned' about their alkalinity going from 8.1 to 8.5 - but then looking at the graphs (which as expected) vary throughout the day. In the past we would wonder 'whats going on - is it the test' - soon we will know - alkalinity varies hour to hour based on light, etc etc. Of course then the debate will start as to whether its best to dose xxx or yyy every 5 minutes to help this remain exactly stable. Its all going to be interesting, no?

Lets not forget that Alk is also used as a carbon source for bacteria. Lots of folks don't realize that (I myself didn't until Randy straightened me out) and it can make for some pretty drastic usage.

 

[User1]

I’m not talking about the current crop of testers (don’t think there have been 10 yet). Maybe in 5 years we’ll know that LOL. I was building off your Neptune example as all aquarium/companies. Sorry if that was unclear.

Either way, I’ll be watching people’s experience with mindstream, reefbot, robotank, testorama and automatank with interest (I made up the last three).

You heard it here first, Testorama

@ca1ore you do have a way to sneak in some zingers that always make me chuckle. I still laugh randomly with the nugget in one of your videos when you released the gem tang to the display. Something about a $700 fish getting killed by a $20 or so. Something like that. Always makes me giggle.