New 3155, sensor problem

[BradB]

I had a 3155 that I consistently had problems with. I bought a brand new 3155 this weekend, as the old unit was probably out of warranty and suffering from corrosion.

The new unit seems to have a sensor problem right out of the box. The light is Red as soon as it is plugged in, and the pump runs until the float valve stops it and kicks off the alarm.

 

[rvitko]

Brad, we do repair out of warranty units as well, we can't repair severe corrosion or water damage but we can repair most anything else if it is newer than 2011.

When you get the red light is the sensor in water? This test is only valid when the optic sensor is dry.

Step 2 outlines this test, all three points cover the common causes of filling past the optic sensor, this is very common on a new unit because new plastic is a bubble magnet and actively repels water and attracts air. If the sensor is in a relatively calm and bubble free area and the sensor passes the self test, this problem will resolve itself in a few days as the sensor will develop a bacterial film that reduces the attraction of bubbles.

1) A siphon, if it is a siphon the issue will be seemingly random, it will tend to only occur when the reservoir is full and the water will fill to a level possibly above or just below the float. Siphon situation 3 is the most probable cause but note as shown in 4 that a
loop will not solve it, the end of the hose must always terminate above the reservoir water level.
2) A sensor issue. The first test is to use the self diagnostic test on the Osmolator to verify the sensor is in working order.
1) With the sensor completely wiped dry, plug in the controller. The sensor MUST be clean and dry for this test to work, a wet or dirty sensor will always fail.
2) All 4 lights will flash and it will beep, a single light will show for 1 seconds and then the normal 15-20 second pump run at startup will begin.
3) This light that is on one second is the optic sensor status, green means pass, yellow means it is marginal, red means it failed.
Assuming it passes the self test the issue is bubbles, optic sensors work by detecting the refraction of air vs water and make no differentiation between a bubble or being dry. The most overlooked source of bubbles is placing the top off hose in the vicinity of the sensors, the incoming splash will introduce bubbles and cause a fill. The hose can be routed to any area of the sump or main tank, and the optic sensor must be in a calm and bubble free area. A definitive test to verify bubbles are the cause is if you can catch it in the act of an overfill and wipe your finger across the sensor and filling stops within 5 seconds, the cause was bubbles.
3) There is a 3rd possibility but this is relatively obscure and only will apply to tanks under 50 gallons or due to a misunderstanding of how the Osmolator works. The Osmolator has timed functions in addition to sensor controlled functions and for the first 25-30 seconds it is not actually detecting water levels and is instead running a series of self diagnostic tests. The pump will always run for 15-20 seconds when you first power it up, this is so the installer can verify the pump is operational and the pump and tubing are primed and ready to fill. Also, the Osmolator always waits 5 seconds to fill to account for waves and surface movement and overfills for 5 seconds so the pump is cycled on less often. If the tank is under 50 gallons you need to open the controller and reduce the pump speed to “nano” and if it is under 30, an additional restriction such as a drip irrigation valve might be needed, this will reduce the amount of water added by these timed sequences to avoid raising the float.
Roger

 

[BradB]

I will retest the sensor out of water. I believe the old unit had a 'Green' sensor in water, and eventually 'Yellow'.

This isn't an intermittent problem - the pump runs until the mechanical float is tripped, so I find it hard to believe it is bubbles. I have taken this in and out of my sump at least 10 times troubleshooting, and it failed every single time.

I had siphon issues before, but not relevant here. The pump is clearly running.

This is a large tank and not a timing issue - the pump will run until the mechanical float trips the alarm or I turn it off. I've let it go about 5 minutes.

On my old unit, the pump died, the connection between the power supply and controller was heavily corroded and the sensor was testing 'Yellow' I understand you can repair components, but what is the point if every single component needs repairs? This way I have a new warranty and can use the old for parts. I also really wanted this working before taking a short vacation, but that isn't going to happen now.

This is a completely different problem from what I had with the old unit. If the old unit where in better shape, I might be able to combine parts and make a single working unit.

 

[rvitko]

Try the bubble test I described in point 2, I cannot emphasize enough how common this is on a new install, think of a new car headlights, a new protein skimmer, water does not want to cling to new plastic, air is almost magnetically attracted. Wipe your finger across the sensor and see if it stops. I don't know how old your old one is but this is more of an issue in the last few years as the new machinist highly polished the mold for the sensor, which increases the long term durability and consistency but creates a break in issue. If your old Osmolator only needed a new power supply and optic sensor and possibly a power socket that is a roughly $60 repair. My main point is, these are made to be repaired and last a long time.

 

[BradB]

I tried the test, and now I get a green Level Led whenever it comes one. It flashes rapidly, maybe 5 times, then goes solid. The pump does not come on at all. This happens whether it is dry, level with the water, or completely under water.

I've been in this hobby 20 years now, and I know the old Tunze stuff was bulletproof, that is why I've spent so much time and money trying to make this work. If you are able to get this working, I will happily pay $60 to fix the old unit and be happy I have 2 so my tank is okay while I send it for repairs. But I am not throwing any more good money after bad now that I paid for 2 units, 1 of which worked well but had a lot of problems and a short life - and the other never worked at all.

 

[rvitko]

Brad, any chance you can email me a video and your phone number so we can try to square this away tomorrow, preferably by a FaceTime or Skype call when you are with it so I can see what is going on? Tunze at sbcglobal dot net. In general a blinking green light means it is in time delay, on units made in the last 6 years or so, they have a 5 second delay, the light will flash green during that 5 seconds to indicate it sensed the water is low but is waiting to rule out a wave or splash and will only turn the pump on if it stays low that whole time.

The normal test should look like this, the sensor is out of water, you plug in the controller, it flashes all 4 lights and beeps, then a single light comes on for a couple seconds and should stay solid, then the pump runs 15-20 seconds and then normal operation begins, this is the start up you should always get but the optic sensor test is only relevant dry, a wet sensor always fails as it is looking for a voltage peak that only happens dry. You can actually do a double confirmation the sensor works and look for fail when wet (red) and pass when dry (green). If it flickers back and forth rapidly between yellow and green for example that usually points to the sensor being dirty, fingerprints will be a common cause of yellow and at a threshold it will flicker back and forth.

 

[BradB]

I will see what I can do about e-mailing you a video, but won't have time to set up anything live.

When plugged in, the green light flashes so fast I can't count, maybe 1/10th of a second on and off for the first second. After that, it is solid green. It doesn't flash the other LEDs at all at any point. It doesn't turn on the pump at any point. I do hear a click I believe to be an electronic relay when the mechanical float moves.

 

[golfer88]

I bought a new one during the summer and i have only had problems with it. I had to get a new pump because mine was bad and this was only 2 weeks after getting it. It would consistently run and flood the tank even on the lowest mode nano on a biocube 29. I have since taken it offline and I’m back to topping off manually.

 

[BradB]

I sent 2 videos, including a different pattern of lights I saw today. Did you get them?

 

[BradB]

I am now working with Tunze via e-mail. While I am not certain if I just had bad luck, or there manufacturing is not up to their previous standards - I can say from experience so far that Tunze's support is still excellent.