New AI Axis Pump- Avoid the brand label mark up

jimfish98 · Nov 7, 2023

Scrolling through my Youtube feed last night and saw the new BRS video with AI's "new" Axis pumps for nano tanks. Took an existing pump, changed the color, got it to read to their app, and then jacked up the price and sent it for mass marketing. Save some money, here are the links to models from ZKSJ that I found.

Axis 20 for $99.99 at BRS
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/axis-20-centrifugal-pump-185-gph-aquaillumination.htmlAxis 40 for $129.99 at BRS
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/axis-40-centrifugal-pump-400-gph-aquaillumination.htmlAxis 90 for $169.99 at BRS
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/axis-90-centrifugal-pump-925-gph-aquaillumination.html
ZKSJ BS-700 Pump for $38.50
https://www.aquariumlowcost.com/sub...ater-pump-for-aquariums.html#/362-model-bs700ZKSJ BS-1500 Pump for $69.50
https://www.aquariumlowcost.com/sub...ter-pump-for-aquariums.html#/363-model-bs1500ZKSJ BS-3500 Pump for $105.50
https://www.aquariumlowcost.com/sub...ter-pump-for-aquariums.html#/365-model-bs3500

TheHarold · Nov 7, 2023

Companies are trying to use existing hardware, write a bit of custom firmware to connect it to their ecosystem, and launch it as “innovation” with some flashy branding.

It’s not a bad strategy. They can rely on tried-and-true hardware instead of reinventing the wheel.

areefer01 · Nov 7, 2023

Ignoring the marketing speak for a minute why would you care what people are buying and why the push to avoid brands? Do you go out of your way to do this about everything else you see day to day regardless of product type, function, or use? Do you go out of your way to say avoid the named or boutique corals with high price tag(s) for color morphs of an acropora?

I do think that marketing be it hardware or chemical is very aggressive in this hobby but it is what it is. Onus is on the hobbyist and some will prefer brand A over knock off or copy cat. Others will do their research and come to their own conclusion and reasoning.

Spread love. Not avoidance.

jimfish98 · Nov 7, 2023

areefer01 said:
Ignoring the marketing speak for a minute why would you care what people are buying and why the push to avoid brands? Do you go out of your way to do this about everything else you see day to day regardless of product type, function, or use? Do you go out of your way to say avoid the named or boutique corals with high price tag(s) for color morphs of an acropora?

I do think that marketing be it hardware or chemical is very aggressive in this hobby but it is what it is. Onus is on the hobbyist and some will prefer brand A over knock off or copy cat. Others will do their research and come to their own conclusion and reasoning.

Spread love. Not avoidance.

I post this as it is a rip off. Allowing a company to do this justifies them doing the same on lights, pumps, and every other component b/c people like you will post here defending it as ok. As corporations continue to buy up other companies, we are seeing less and less competition in the market place also fueling costs.

As for corals and such, yes if I see someone looking for something and I know it can be picked up cheaper, i post about it within the local forums. Someone looking for the torch the store is selling for $300ph, I will post the hobbyist selling it for $100. That $250pp GMK zoa, here's a hobbyist selling for $50pp. Your $200 acro, here's a hobbyist selling for $50. I will look out for other hobbyists as we shouldn't be priced out of the hobby by turning a blind eye to marketing/sales tactics.

rtparty · Nov 7, 2023

Simply having better control and a real company standing behind their product is worth it to many.

This practice of rebranding happens all over the world in every industry. It’s been happening for well over 30 years in this hobby and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future.

Are you going to blow our minds by telling us the Orbit isn’t brand new innovation either???

jimfish98 · Nov 7, 2023

rtparty said:
Simply having better control and a real company standing behind their product is worth it to many.

This practice of rebranding happens all over the world in every industry. It’s been happening for well over 30 years in this hobby and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future.

Are you going to blow our minds by telling us the Orbit isn’t brand new innovation either???

If its worth a $60 mark up to you, go for it. As for the Orbit, we all know its a Maxspect which Aperture is "Exclusive North American Distribution Partner" for them and if anything its a sign that they will be buying up the brand again removing another vendor from the hobby.

apb03 · Nov 7, 2023

What you pay for here is the software. If all of us just used dumb hardware our tanks would cost a fraction of what they do. We like our alerts, and slider bars and should be honest about that.

areefer01 · Nov 7, 2023

jimfish98 said:
I post this as it is a rip off. Allowing a company to do this justifies them doing the same on lights, pumps, and every other component b/c people like you will post here defending it as ok. As corporations continue to buy up other companies, we are seeing less and less competition in the market place also fueling costs.

Because people like me. Can you elaborate on this please? Can you also give me a couple examples of what you consider innovative in this hobby?

Some people are happy to get into their Yugo to grab a gallon of milk. Others are happy to get into their Ferrari for that very same gallon. We can of course narrow it down and swap the Yugo to a Honda Civic and the Ferrari to say a Nissan Sentra. Some just like one brand over the other...or some have more money to burn.

jimfish98 · Nov 7, 2023

areefer01 said:
Because people like me. Can you elaborate on this please? Can you also give me a couple examples of what you consider innovative in this hobby?

Some people are happy to get into their Yugo to grab a gallon of milk. Others are happy to get into their Ferrari for that very same gallon. We can of course narrow it down and swap the Yugo to a Honda Civic and the Ferrari to say a Nissan Sentra. Some just like one brand over the other...or some have more money to burn.

People who jump in to justify their actions as just acceptable practice. Your comparison is off though. It's not how much people have to spend and choosing low cost budget vs high end to get the job done. This is going to the dealership and seeing the Yugo for sale and the Ferrari for sale next to it, except the Ferrari is just another Yugo with a paint job and a different decal on it.

Innovation is an irrelevant aspect to an issue over rebranding. If they created something brand new, this thread wouldn't exist. They took an existing cheap pump that others were selling and marked it up, there is zero innovation in that.

areefer01 · Nov 7, 2023

jimfish98 said:
People who jump in to justify their actions as just acceptable practice. Your comparison is off though. It's not how much people have to spend and choosing low cost budget vs high end to get the job done. This is going to the dealership and seeing the Yugo for sale and the Ferrari for sale next to it, except the Ferrari is just another Yugo with a paint job and a different decal on it.

Can you elaborate what action(s) I am justifying? You mentioned avoiding the brand label and mark up yet fail to understand how it may matter to some people. To get a gallon of milk one can walk, use a horse or buggy, the Yugo, or the Ferrari. It isn't about the money we agree but brands matter. Levis, Wrangler, Honda, Dooney & Bourke, and others. And if it is a re-brand why do you care? Maybe it allows integration to their ecosystem for a minor quality of life improvement. Are you suggesting to avoid products that are rebrands in general or is this AI specific?

It could be that I have a tank full of AI branded gear and a giant tattoo on my back of the company logo but then again I could have no products what so ever and only commented in passing. Who knows, who cares, but don't take, or make, posts personal (comment 'because people like me').

jimfish98 said:
Innovation is an irrelevant aspect to an issue over rebranding. If they created something brand new, this thread wouldn't exist. They took an existing cheap pump that others were selling and marked it up, there is zero innovation in that.

You mentioned the lack of innovation so it is relevant to this conversation. I was curious as to what products and/or brands provided innovation in your opinion. GHL Ion could be one example.

TL; DR - brands are important to some people and I don't see how that impacts either of us. Choose to buy or don't.

Tavero · Nov 7, 2023

rtparty said:
Simply having better control and a real company standing behind their product is worth it to many.

This practice of rebranding happens all over the world in every industry. It’s been happening for well over 30 years in this hobby and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future.

Are you going to blow our minds by telling us the Orbit isn’t brand new innovation either???

Products connected a cloud is not an upgrade but a downgrade though. People should finally realize this. As long as you can't use your own custom servers you don't even own the product.

The moment the company goes out of business, the customers have a useless brick, ready for a landfill. Or the company decides they now want more money and add a subscription for the earlier free features of their products. Happens all the time. Even happened here in this forum for a popular light.

I'm not telling anyone what to do with their money but as long as people keep buying these products, more and more companies will enforce obligatory apps and internet connections for their products. And then remove functionability.

apb03 · Nov 7, 2023

Tavero said:
Products connected a cloud is not an upgrade but a downgrade though. People should finally realize this. As long as you can't use your own custom servers you don't even own the product.

The moment the company goes out of business, the customers have a useless brick, ready for a landfill. Or the company decides they now want more money and add a subscription for the earlier free features of their products. Happens all the time. Even happened here in this forum for a popular light.

I'm not telling anyone what to do with their money but as long as people keep buying these products, more and more companies will enforce obligatory apps and internet connections for their products. And then remove functionability.

So true. We are paying a huge price for the convenience of Cloud applications. If/when we have a massive recession, we will see the true ramifications of this shift.

jimfish98 · Nov 7, 2023

areefer01 said:
Can you elaborate what action(s) I am justifying? You mentioned avoiding the brand label and mark up yet fail to understand how it may matter to some people. To get a gallon of milk one can walk, use a horse or buggy, the Yugo, or the Ferrari. It isn't about the money we agree but brands matter. Levis, Wrangler, Honda, Dooney & Bourke, and others. And if it is a re-brand why do you care? Maybe it allows integration to their ecosystem for a minor quality of life improvement. Are you suggesting to avoid products that are rebrands in general or is this AI specific?

It could be that I have a tank full of AI branded gear and a giant tattoo on my back of the company logo but then again I could have no products what so ever and only commented in passing. Who knows, who cares, but don't take, or make, posts personal (comment 'because people like me').

You mentioned the lack of innovation so it is relevant to this conversation. I was curious as to what products and/or brands provided innovation in your opinion. GHL Ion could be one example.

TL; DR - brands are important to some people and I don't see how that impacts either of us. Choose to buy or don't.

Listen, pointless to go back and forth with you. If you want to spend more because there is a brand name on it, go for it, not stopping you. I am sticking to people should be aware that its basically a $60 sticker they are paying for and the originals are out there so they can avoid the pricey sticker. If you don't like that, fine, again not stopping you.

trmiv · Nov 7, 2023

They aren’t paying for a sticker. If someone is purchasing an Orbit or Axis, most likely they own other AI/Ecotech products and already control them via Möbius or Apex with an mxm and want one of these style pumps they can also control. It’s not like they just slapped a label on it and called it good. They had to integrate it into both Mobius/myAI and the Apex and all the software work that comes with that. Plus they are doing the warranty support for the product.

If you don’t want any of that, by all means just buy the TMC version, it will work fine. But for someone who wants to control these with what they already control their other products with, this is great.

RoanokeReef · Nov 7, 2023

Cool it's not for you. Did you do a tear down? Wouldn't be the first time a company buys an off-shelf solution but has different specifications for the internals.

rtparty · Nov 7, 2023

Tavero said:
Products connected a cloud is not an upgrade but a downgrade though. People should finally realize this. As long as you can't use your own custom servers you don't even own the product.

The moment the company goes out of business, the customers have a useless brick, ready for a landfill. Or the company decides they now want more money and add a subscription for the earlier free features of their products. Happens all the time. Even happened here in this forum for a popular light.

I'm not telling anyone what to do with their money but as long as people keep buying these products, more and more companies will enforce obligatory apps and internet connections for their products. And then remove functionability.

Except the vast majority of these items can be run locally with zero cloud interaction or application. AI stuff doesn’t even have WiFi connectivity so there goes that’s theory

Raul-7 · Nov 7, 2023

Are these for waterchanges/ATO? Or more for AIO aquariums?

spsick · Nov 7, 2023

The gyre appeals to me just for integration with Mobius that my Vortechs on. Being made by Maxspect it’s even more appealing than if AI or Ecotech built it as I know it will be reliable haha.