New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by Randy Holmes-Farley, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. sanjay

    sanjay Member

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    In part 2 of the old reciepe, you have sodium carbonate. I always end up with undissolved Sodium carbonate. So, around 40C is the magic temperature for maximum solubility. I was going higher than that.
     
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  2. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    The old recipe may dissolve the material faster at even higher temp, even if the solubility limit is lower. It shouldn't be at the limit.

    How much solid remains? Did you bake baking soda to make it?
     
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  3. Willy315

    Willy315 Member

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    Is there some text missing in this line?
     
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  4. JimWelsh

    JimWelsh Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    This is a reasonable edit:
    Dissolve 282.8 g of sodium hydroxide (=7.07 moles to match the 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate in alkalinity) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.
     
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  5. WWIII

    WWIII Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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  6. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    lol

    Sorry. :D
     
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  7. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Not if the only difference is water, which it often is. You may actually pay more to get the product with less water and otherwise equal purity.

    Many of these products have significant other materials in them. Sodium, bromide, potassium, etc.

    Those particular big concentration ones aren't an issue. It is the unknown levels of smaller but more biologically active ones such as copper that could be a concern.
     
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  8. sanjay

    sanjay Member

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    I used the Sodium Carbonate from BRS. I don’t know exactly how much is left, but there is a layer of white at the bottom.
     
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  9. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Unless it seems like a substantial portion of what you added, I'd just ignore it. :)
     
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  10. Aaron Stone

    Aaron Stone Member

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    Obviously I need to go back to the basics here, but I have a quick question:
    I have always been under the (apparently false) assumption that the purpose of dosing the two part was primarily for the calcium and carbonate for coral skeleton growth. If the new recipe does not have carbonate, where is that going to come from? Am I missing something here?
     
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  11. WWIII

    WWIII Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    What you describe in your last paragraph is exactly my concern! I guess going with a product that has been known to be relatively "safe" would be the best route. Really just trying to figure out if there's a better option for those who wish to make their own diy 2 part, but are less concerned with price vs quality/purenesss. It appears the calcium chloride is the biggest expense part of the formula, I was basically trying to figure out if there is a best of both worlds. Being able to use a calcium product that very pure, but not outrageously priced. Then again many have been using dowflake for years, so maybe that is just what I'm looking for! Thank you for this new recipe and for always taking the time to answer everyone's questions @Randy Holmes-Farley !
     
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  12. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Nope, you are absolutely correct.

    I believe what happens is that the sodium hydroxide reacts with carbonic acid which pulls the CO2 from the water. This provides the carbonate while raising pH through reduction in CO2.
     
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  13. Aaron Stone

    Aaron Stone Member

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    So would this be a potential issue for those running CO2 scrubbers?
     
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  14. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I doubt it. Your pH would have to be very high already for it to cause a problem. If you already have a high pH due to running a CO2 scrubber you may be better off sticking to the original 2 part.
     
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  15. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    There's no issue with dosing hydroxide and lack of carbonate/bicarbonate unless you drive the pH too high (higher than you'd go).

    This is a cut and paste from my limewater/kalkwasser article which has the same "concern":


    ...and the hydroxide ions supply alkalinity. Hydroxide itself provides alkalinity (both by definition and as measured with an alkalinity test), but corals consume alkalinity as bicarbonate, not hydroxide. Fortunately, when hydroxide is used in a reef aquarium, it quickly combines with atmospheric and dissolved carbon dioxide and bicarbonate to form bicarbonate and carbonate:

    4. OH- + CO2 ---> HCO3-

    5. OH- + HCO3- ---> CO3-- + H2O

    In an aquarium with an acceptable pH, there is no concern that the alkalinity provided by hydroxide is any different from any other carbonate alkalinity supplement. The hydroxide immediately disappears into the bicarbonate/carbonate system. In other words, the amount of hydroxide present in aquarium water is really a function of only pH (regardless of what has been added), and at any pH below 9, it is an insignificant factor in alkalinity tests (much less than 0.1 meq/L). Consequently, the fact that alkalinity is initially supplied as hydroxide is not to be viewed as problematic, except as it impacts pH.
     
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  16. Aaron Stone

    Aaron Stone Member

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    Good to know,
    Thank You
     
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  17. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    You're welcome.

    Happy Reefing. :)
     
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  18. Willy315

    Willy315 Member

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    Thank you
     
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  19. Toomanyfish

    Toomanyfish Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    So I’m confused lol
    This recipe is the same potency as Randy’s original recipe just with different stuff?
    If I want to make it like Esv I’d just multiply every ingredient by 1.5 ? And there’s potential to concentrate it even more if I wanted?
     
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  20. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Yes, yes, and yes.

    See, you weren't confused. :)
     
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