New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I've heard of people causing metal objects in their home to rust by mixing up HCl solutions in the home, due to the corrosive nature of HCl. Do you anticipate any issues like this when mixing solutions of concentrated NaOH in the home? When preparing my NaOH solution I wear gloves, coat, mask and goggles but I never considered the corrosive nature of concentrated NaOH with regards to my home. Any thoughts on this?

HCl has a vapor phase, hence the fumes from concentrated hydrochloric acid.

NaOH has no significant vapor phase at any temperature short of a blast furnace, so there's no similar concern.

 

[chema]

After almost two months dosing Tropic Marin part C with NaOH to provide alkalinity (without sodium sulfate) and CaCl2 to provide calcium (without MgSO4) I have to report tissue necrosis of some of my acros.

I began dosing the TM part C in an effort to avoid the increase of salinity, but that did not happen. Salinity also increases with the TM part C.

I'm awaiting an ICP analysis to check what is out of order. However I'm seriously thinking about going back to the former two part with higher boost formula (NaOH plus NaSO4, CaCl2 plus MgSO4).

 

[elysics]

After almost two months dosing Tropic Marin part C with NaOH to provide alkalinity (without sodium sulfate) and CaCl2 to provide calcium (without MgSO4) I have to report tissue necrosis of some of my acros.

I began dosing the TM part C in an effort to avoid the increase of salinity, but that did not happen. Salinity also increases with the TM part C.

I'm awaiting an ICP analysis to check what is out of order. However I'm seriously thinking about going back to the former two part with higher boost formula (NaOH plus NaSO4, CaCl2 plus MgSO4).

The part c isn't supposed to stop salinity increases, in fact, salinity rises even more if you use it. If you think about it, you are pumping different salts into the water, as opposed to just not doing that. The point of it is to prevent imbalances in the water chemistry.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

After almost two months dosing Tropic Marin part C with NaOH to provide alkalinity (without sodium sulfate) and CaCl2 to provide calcium (without MgSO4) I have to report tissue necrosis of some of my acros.

I began dosing the TM part C in an effort to avoid the increase of salinity, but that did not happen. Salinity also increases with the TM part C.

I'm awaiting an ICP analysis to check what is out of order. However I'm seriously thinking about going back to the former two part with higher boost formula (NaOH plus NaSO4, CaCl2 plus MgSO4).

Were you monitoring the salinity?

 

[chema]

Were you monitoring the salinity?

Yes. It increased from 35,4 to 36 in two weeks

 

[chema]

I have measured some other parameters. Magnesium decreased from 1300 to 1140. Potasium, on the other way increased from 390 to 430.
Should have I overdosed the Part C I would have seen an increment in all the parameters analyzed. The fact that magnesium decreased and potasium increased makes me think that it is not well balanced.

 

[chema]

The part c isn't supposed to stop salinity increases, in fact, salinity rises even more if you use it. If you think about it, you are pumping different salts into the water, as opposed to just not doing that. The point of it is to prevent imbalances in the water chemistry.

Hi, thanks for the explanation. It is true that Tropic Marin states that there may be an increase in salinity. I thought that the formation of new NaCl would add to the water added (all the solutions) resulting in the balance of ions and a steady salinity. Obviously, it is not the case. However, a 0,6 increase in two weeks looks too much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi, thanks for the explanation. It is true that Tropic Marin states that there may be an increase in salinity. I thought that the formation of new NaCl would add to the water added (all the solutions) resulting in the balance of ions and a steady salinity. Obviously, it is not the case. However, a 0,6 increase in two weeks looks too much.

The salinity increase when using a two part or balling can be calculated.

Suppose you are adding 1 dKH of alkalinity per day and the corresponding amount of calcium (about 7 ppm).

In one month, you have added 31 x 7 mg/L = 217 mg/l of calcium and 385 mg of chloride (because calcium is added as CaCl2).

If the product is perfectly designed and there is a true seawater residual of ions (like ESV two part and TM Balling claim), then that chloride must be accompanied by an additional 310 mg of other ions (sodium, etc, because seawater is 55% chloride and 44% other ions by weight).

Thus, if the salinity started at 35 ppt (~35 g/L; sg = 1.0264) then in a month, it will rise to 35 grams/L + 0.385 g/l + 0.310 g/l = 35.7 g/L, or a sg of 1.0269.

 

[chema]

The salinity increase when using a two part or balling can be calculated.

Suppose you are adding 1 dKH of alkalinity per day and the corresponding amount of calcium (about 7 ppm).

In one month, you have added 31 x 7 mg/L = 217 mg/l of calcium and 385 mg of chloride (because calcium is added as CaCl2).

If the product is perfectly designed and there is a true seawater residual of ions (like ESV two part and TM Balling claim), then that chloride must be accompanied by an additional 310 mg of other ions (sodium, etc, because seawater is 55% chloride and 44% other ions by weight).

Thus, if the salinity started at 35 ppt (~35 g/L; sg = 1.0264) then in a month, it will rise to 35 grams/L + 0.385 g/l + 0.310 g/l = 35.7 g/L, or a sg of 1.0269.

Thank you Randy. I’m adding close to 2 dKH units if alkalinity per day, what would make for the increment you calculated but in 15 days. I observed an increment of 0.6 g/L in 15 days, which is very close

 

[Miami Reef]

Just double checking: the calcium chloride dihydrate is the same thing in the BRS calcium chloride? And the Magnesium chloride is the same thing as the BRS one?

Randy, do you have an updated link for the sodium hydroxide and the sodium sulfate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just double checking: the calcium chloride dihydrate is the same thing in the BRS calcium chloride? And the Magnesium chloride is the same thing as the BRS one?

Randy, do you have an updated link for the sodium hydroxide and the sodium sulfate?

Yes on the dihydrate and the magnesium (make sure it is chloride and not the chloride/sulfate combo).

Any food or ACS reagent grade is fine for any of these ingredients.

note too that this may be an easier recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

 

[Miami Reef]

Yes on the dihydrate and the magnesium (make sure it is chloride and not the chloride/sulfate combo).

Any food or ACS reagent grade is fine for any of these ingredients.

note too that this may be an easier recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

Thank you Randy! That recipe is excellent.

I got this one from Amazon. Can you give me the thumbs up if it’s good?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Should be good, yes.

 

[chema]

Thank you Randy! That recipe is excellent.

I got this one from Amazon. Can you give me the thumbs up if it’s good?

That is a very good deal for NaOH. I’m paying almost three times more

 

[Adam1985]

Great. Let us know what you new users find. :)

Works great for me, really great.

One question @Randy Holmes-Farley,one of your posts gave an option to add SrCl2 to part 1. I followed your advice and added Sr to part 1. Just had an ICP and while Sr/Ca/Mg are all in good levels and in good ratios, some of the trace elements were undetectable despite my dosing TM K+/A- plus 2 Little Fishes iron/Mn, and Polh’s Xtra. Every day.

Any thoughts on whether or not it’s possible and/or good idea to buy additional pharma grade reagents like you suggested for Sr, and add to the two part? Of course we’d only be able to do this with items that won’t precipitate out or otherwise be problematic. Would add them in NSW proportion.

Anyway would really appreciate feedback from Randy but everyone else please feel free to comment.

Thanks!

Adam

 

[agorkov]

I have an aquarium of about 300 liters. I want to increase pH by 0.3 in it. How often and how much should be dosed to achieve the goal?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have an aquarium of about 300 liters. I want to increase pH by 0.3 in it. How often and how much should be dosed to achieve the goal?

You should NOT even ask that question. lol

No product can raise pH by any specific amount and keep it there, and you should never dose any alk supplement based on pH alone.

What are you dosing now and how much alkalinity demand do you have each day?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Works great for me, really great.

One question @Randy Holmes-Farley,one of your posts gave an option to add SrCl2 to part 1. I followed your advice and added Sr to part 1. Just had an ICP and while Sr/Ca/Mg are all in good levels and in good ratios, some of the trace elements were undetectable despite my dosing TM K+/A- plus 2 Little Fishes iron/Mn, and Polh’s Xtra. Every day.

Any thoughts on whether or not it’s possible and/or good idea to buy additional pharma grade reagents like you suggested for Sr, and add to the two part? Of course we’d only be able to do this with items that won’t precipitate out or otherwise be problematic. Would add them in NSW proportion.

Anyway would really appreciate feedback from Randy but everyone else please feel free to comment.

Thanks!

Adam

Trace elements are more complicated than strontium because some can change form and become insoluble on exposure to air, but there are threads around where folks make DIY trace element supplements, and putting some of them in the calcium part may be sensible. I've not tried it myself.

 

[agorkov]

You should NOT even ask that question. lol

No product can raise pH by any specific amount and keep it there, and you should never dose any alk supplement based on pH alone.

What are you dosing now and how much alkalinity demand do you have each day?

I dose 10 ml of AFR every day to maintain ca (450), mg (1300), alk (7.0).
To raise the pH, I prepared two solutions according to the instructions in the first post of this thread. But I do not understand how often and how much I need to dose these solutions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I dose 10 ml of AFR every day to maintain ca (450), mg (1300), alk (7.0).
To raise the pH, I prepared two solutions according to the instructions in the first post of this thread. But I do not understand how often and how much I need to dose these solutions.

It is NEVER pH based dosing. It is ALWAYS alkalinity based dosing, and you typically hope for as much pH boost as you can get. Supplementing all alkalinity this way does not usually push pH too high if it starts low.

You will need to reduce the AFR and slowly replace some or all of it with the high pH product if you want to raise pH this way.

What is the pH range now?