New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Betex · May 6, 2022

Clownfishy said:
Many thanks Randy, I will update this thread periodically with my findings. I have set out below what I am going to use, my current aquarium setup, dosage and water parameters so people can follow the progress.

My Aquarium
Please see my aquarium build for information on my Nano (I must update that thread with some newer information!). So people do not have to read the whole thread, I have included the core components here -

Dimensions

Width Height Depth Volume
External 115cm (45.28") 30cm (11.81") 30cm (11.81") 103.5 litres
(27.3 U.S. gallons)
Internal 113cm (44.49") 28cm (11.02") 28cm (11.02") 88.6 litres (23.4 U.S. gallons.)

10mm glass opti-white (starphire) glass

Equipment

Lighting 2 x TMC Reef-Photon 84w
Pumps 2 x Tunze 9040
Pump Battery Backup 2 x Tunze Safety Connecter
2 x Lucas LSLA20-12 12V 20AH Sealed Rechargeable Battery
2 x Maypole 12v 7423A Battery Charger
Skimmer Tunze 9004 DC
(connected to a C02 scrubber)
Heater 2 x Aquael Ultra Heater 100w (I think these are branded Cobalt in the US)
Heater Battery Backup PowerWalker UPS
Doser Coralbox & Apex DOS
Computer Controller Neptune Apex 2016
2 x EB6 (UK energy bar)
Aqara Hub Water sensor (detect if dosers leaks)

Current Dosing (before switching to Sodium Hydroxide)

Parameter Type Dosage
Alkalinity Soda Ash (Randy Holmes-Farley recipe) 11ml over 24 hours
Calcium Calcium Chloride (Randy Holmes-Farley recipe) 11ml over 24 hours
Trace Aquaforest Reef Mineral Salt 11ml over 24 hours
Kalkwasser Calcium Hydroxide 275ml over 12 hours
(when lights are off)

Key Water Parameters
These water parameters were taken before dosing Sodium Hydroxide and will be the key parameters I will closely monitor throughout my journey.

Parameter High Low
pH 8.01 - 8.06 7.84 - 7.91
C02 1635 409
Alkalinity 10.02 8.6
Calcium 455 470
Magnesium 1470 1350

pH
Normally between 7.85 - 8.02. As it has been getting warmer here in the UK, we have had the windows open a little bit more which driving down the C02 in the house and raising the pH in the aquarium. The low reading indicates night time. It is worth noting that I run a C02 scrubber on the Tunze 9004 skimmer inlet. The high of nearly 8.20 is was caused by a large water change.

C02
As mentioned above the C02 level in the house has dropped quite a lot during the day with the windows now open but you can see from a couple of examples below that during the evening and night, C02 levels rise which is another contributor to my low pH levels. Even with the Kalkwasser dosing, the pH drops rapidly after lights out.

Alkalinity
Normally measures around 9.5 - 10.0 using a Salifert test kit

Calcium
Normally measures around 450 using a Salifert test kit

Magnesium
Normally measures around 1400 using a Salifert test kit

New 2 Part
As I dose using a 3 part bailing method, I will be dropping the Magnesium from Part 1 and the Sodium Sulphate from Part 2. I will monitor my Magnesium levels and if I find I need it, I will dose Magnesium to my Part 3 as this is what Aquaforest recommends when using their Mineral Salt (Part 3). Here is what I am about to use -

Part 1 - The Calcium Part (excludes Magnesium)
Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

Part 2 - The Alkalinity Part (excludes Sodium Sulfate)
Dissolve 282.8 g of Sodium Hydroxide in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

Part 3 - Aquaforest Mineral Salt Part
As per manufacturer's instructions

Therefore, the only change I will be making is swapping out from my current dosing is the Soda Ash with Sodium Hydroxide.

I am expecting the Sodium Hydroxide to arrive tomorrow (Saturday) so I will start posting the results shortly. I will also report back on the following as I have read some people report issues -

Any issues with containers disintegrating

Any issues with dosing pipes discoloration or disintegrating

Sediment on the glass bottom

Hope people find this interesting and a BIG thank you to Randy for all the advice and solutions he offers.

Did you find instructions on how much AF mineral salt to use per gallon by itself? Everything I read was that mixture in Mag/Calc but I guess I never looked deep enough for it. I am using TMP for the balling but have some af I wouldnt mind using.

Clownfishy · May 7, 2022

Betex said:
Did you find instructions on how much AF mineral salt to use per gallon by itself? Everything I read was that mixture in Mag/Calc but I guess I never looked deep enough for it. I am using TMP for the balling but have some af I wouldnt mind using.

If you scroll through two thirds of this video, they say to add 10gramms of Magnesium to 1 litre of their mineral salt.

You will have to do the conversion into US gallons but I hope that helps.

Clownfishy · May 8, 2022

Clownfishy said:
Many thanks Randy, I will update this thread periodically with my findings. I have set out below what I am going to use, my current aquarium setup, dosage and water parameters so people can follow the progress.

My Aquarium
Please see my aquarium build for information on my Nano (I must update that thread with some newer information!). So people do not have to read the whole thread, I have included the core components here -

Dimensions

Width Height Depth Volume
External 115cm (45.28") 30cm (11.81") 30cm (11.81") 103.5 litres
(27.3 U.S. gallons)
Internal 113cm (44.49") 28cm (11.02") 28cm (11.02") 88.6 litres (23.4 U.S. gallons.)

10mm glass opti-white (starphire) glass

Equipment

Lighting 2 x TMC Reef-Photon 84w
Pumps 2 x Tunze 9040
Pump Battery Backup 2 x Tunze Safety Connecter
2 x Lucas LSLA20-12 12V 20AH Sealed Rechargeable Battery
2 x Maypole 12v 7423A Battery Charger
Skimmer Tunze 9004 DC
(connected to a C02 scrubber)
Heater 2 x Aquael Ultra Heater 100w (I think these are branded Cobalt in the US)
Heater Battery Backup PowerWalker UPS
Doser Coralbox & Apex DOS
Computer Controller Neptune Apex 2016
2 x EB6 (UK energy bar)
Aqara Hub Water sensor (detect if dosers leaks)

Current Dosing (before switching to Sodium Hydroxide)

Parameter Type Dosage
Alkalinity Soda Ash (Randy Holmes-Farley recipe) 11ml over 24 hours
Calcium Calcium Chloride (Randy Holmes-Farley recipe) 11ml over 24 hours
Trace Aquaforest Reef Mineral Salt 11ml over 24 hours
Kalkwasser Calcium Hydroxide 275ml over 12 hours
(when lights are off)

Key Water Parameters
These water parameters were taken before dosing Sodium Hydroxide and will be the key parameters I will closely monitor throughout my journey.

Parameter High Low
pH 8.01 - 8.06 7.84 - 7.91
C02 1635 409
Alkalinity 10.02 8.6
Calcium 455 470
Magnesium 1470 1350

pH
Normally between 7.85 - 8.02. As it has been getting warmer here in the UK, we have had the windows open a little bit more which driving down the C02 in the house and raising the pH in the aquarium. The low reading indicates night time. It is worth noting that I run a C02 scrubber on the Tunze 9004 skimmer inlet. The high of nearly 8.20 is was caused by a large water change.

C02
As mentioned above the C02 level in the house has dropped quite a lot during the day with the windows now open but you can see from a couple of examples below that during the evening and night, C02 levels rise which is another contributor to my low pH levels. Even with the Kalkwasser dosing, the pH drops rapidly after lights out.

Alkalinity
Normally measures around 9.5 - 10.0 using a Salifert test kit

Calcium
Normally measures around 450 using a Salifert test kit

Magnesium
Normally measures around 1400 using a Salifert test kit

New 2 Part
As I dose using a 3 part bailing method, I will be dropping the Magnesium from Part 1 and the Sodium Sulphate from Part 2. I will monitor my Magnesium levels and if I find I need it, I will dose Magnesium to my Part 3 as this is what Aquaforest recommends when using their Mineral Salt (Part 3). Here is what I am about to use -

Part 1 - The Calcium Part (excludes Magnesium)
Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

Part 2 - The Alkalinity Part (excludes Sodium Sulfate)
Dissolve 282.8 g of Sodium Hydroxide in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

Part 3 - Aquaforest Mineral Salt Part
As per manufacturer's instructions

Therefore, the only change I will be making is swapping out from my current dosing is the Soda Ash with Sodium Hydroxide.

I am expecting the Sodium Hydroxide to arrive tomorrow (Saturday) so I will start posting the results shortly. I will also report back on the following as I have read some people report issues -

Any issues with containers disintegrating

Any issues with dosing pipes discoloration or disintegrating

Sediment on the glass bottom

Hope people find this interesting and a BIG thank you to Randy for all the advice and solutions he offers.

Well that did not go as I thought it would! I mixed up the Sodium Hydroxide and test dosed 1ml into my nano over the flow of my power head. The good news is I certainly saw a slight jump in pH just from this small amount. However, I experienced the issue where is turns into a globe like substance as it hit the water. As I do not have a sump, it went throughout the tank landing on the corals and the fish tried to eat it! I immediately turned the flow on both pumps to maximum and it did dissolve after about 60 seconds. Think I am going to have to pause the experiment and have a think how I can get around this. Maybe dosing directly into the main aquarium is not such a good idea. Maybe weakening the mixture but dosing more of it will get around this problem for people without sumps.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 9, 2022

Clownfishy said:
Well that did not go as I thought it would! I mixed up the Sodium Hydroxide and test dosed 1ml into my nano over the flow of my power head. The good news is I certainly saw a slight jump in pH just from this small amount. However, I experienced the issue where is turns into a globe like substance as it hit the water. As I do not have a sump, it went throughout the tank landing on the corals and the fish tried to eat it! I immediately turned the flow on both pumps to maximum and it did dissolve after about 60 seconds. Think I am going to have to pause the experiment and have a think how I can get around this. Maybe dosing directly into the main aquarium is not such a good idea. Maybe weakening the mixture but dosing more of it will get around this problem for people without sumps.

The precipitate is likely magnesium hydroxide that can redissolve once it mixes in. Reducing the concentration in the fresh water you dissolved it in may help

StevePhx · May 13, 2022

So has anyone determined the maximum weight per gallon for alk and ca? I’m dosing a 350 sps tank so need the max concentration possible.

Currently using Triton but want to have more control over trace elements and get the pH boost.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 14, 2022

StevePhx said:
So has anyone determined the maximum weight per gallon for alk and ca? I’m dosing a 350 sps tank so need the max concentration possible.

Currently using Triton but want to have more control over trace elements and get the pH boost.

I do not recommend dosing the maximum concentration. The alk part is already prone to locally raising the pH quite high and thus causing potential for preciptitation unless it mixes in really fast.

That said, it is chemically possible to make NaOH and calcium chloride far more concentrated (up to about 1000 g/L final volume at 25 deg C , less at lower temps).

StevePhx · May 14, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I do not recommend dosing the maximum concentration. The alk part is already prone to locally raising the pH quite high and thus causing potential for preciptitation unless it mixes in really fast.

That said, it is chemically possible to make NaOH and calcium chloride far more concentrated (up to about 1000 g/L final volume at 25 deg C , less at lower temps).

So is there a recommended max concentration?

I dose small quantities 96 times a day and it drops right next to my return pump so small chance of precipitation.

I currently hit 8.2 as my high with pH and 7.9 as a low. This includes leaving a window cracked by the tank and running a recirculating CO2 scrubber

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 15, 2022

StevePhx said:
So is there a recommended max concentration?

I dose small quantities 96 times a day and it drops right next to my return pump so small chance of precipitation.

I currently hit 8.2 as my high with pH and 7.9 as a low. This includes leaving a window cracked by the tank and running a recirculating CO2 scrubber

There's no magic number. The concern just gets worse and worse as the local pH rises.

If you believe you are not seeing a problem from local precipitation, there's nothing wrong with pushing the concentration higher than the recommended recipe, and just keep moving up until you detect a problem or reach a concentration that you like.

LimestoneCowboy · May 16, 2022

@Randy Holmes-Farley question for you. I am currently using your sodium hydroxide version of your 3 part recipe as the foundation for our reef system but with a twist. I am also trying to peg the pH to around 8.3 with the following rules set in our apex. In addition to the 3 part which accounts for about 90% of our element consumption, we have the calcium reactor Kamoer turn on when the pH is over 8.3 and then our .4% Kalk slurry Kamoer turn on when below 8.3. So far, I have the amount dosed with both dialed in so that it keeps the alk pretty steady and has tightened our pH swing from .4 to around .18 day to night. Sorry for all the detail, but the question is besides a tiny bit of Mg delta, do you see any chemistry balance issues we will run in to here? Thank you as always!

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 16, 2022

LimestoneCowboy said:
@Randy Holmes-Farley question for you. I am currently using your sodium hydroxide version of your 3 part recipe as the foundation for our reef system but with a twist. I am also trying to peg the pH to around 8.3 with the following rules set in our apex. In addition to the 3 part which accounts for about 90% of our element consumption, we have the calcium reactor Kamoer turn on when the pH is over 8.3 and then our .4% Kalk slurry Kamoer turn on when below 8.3. So far, I have the amount dosed with both dialed in so that it keeps the alk pretty steady and has tightened our pH swing from .4 to around .18 day to night. Sorry for all the detail, but the question is besides a tiny bit of Mg delta, do you see any chemistry balance issues we will run in to here? Thank you as always!

No, I see no chemistry issues except those that accompany each of those methods individually (e.g. salinity creep and ion displacement with the two part, lack of magnesium with the kalkwasser, undetermined element additions (e.g., magnesium) from the CaCO3/CO2 reactor, etc.

RSnodgrass · Jul 18, 2022

The more I read the less I know.

I'm certain these questions have been answered though I cannot seem to locate the information (or read past it). I'll ask these in the least presumptive way I can...

System: approx. 300gal displaced volume.
Dosing: All For Reef & small amount of NaOH (22%) in the morning to boost pH for past 7mo.
Values: 10.07 Alk, 437 CA, 1329 MG, pH 8.16-8.36 daily.
Auto Water Change: 30% monthly (1% daily).

1) the Sulfate mixed with the NaOH serves what purpose exactly? More specifically is there a risk in not adding it with my current dosing?
2) Is there a version of homemade All For Reef where using NaOH works?

I use to run kalk with a pegged pH but cannot reasonably generate enough evaluation on my closed system to keep up with demand and I'm not interested in a slury.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 18, 2022

RSnodgrass said:
The more I read the less I know.

I'm certain these questions have been answered though I cannot seem to locate the information (or read past it). I'll ask these in the least presumptive way I can...

System: approx. 300gal displaced volume.
Dosing: All For Reef & small amount of NaOH (22%) in the morning to boost pH for past 7mo.
Values: 10.07 Alk, 437 CA, 1329 MG, pH 8.16-8.36 daily.
Auto Water Change: 30% monthly (1% daily).

1) the Sulfate mixed with the NaOH serves what purpose exactly? More specifically is there a risk in not adding it with my current dosing?
2) Is there a version of homemade All For Reef where using NaOH works?

I use to run kalk with a pegged pH but cannot reasonably generate enough evaluation on my closed system to keep up with demand and I'm not interested in a slury.

If you use a two part of NaOH/HCO3-/CO3-- and calcium chloride and do not ever add sulfate either by adding sodium sulfate or magnesium sulfate, then chloride can steadily rise and sulfate will steadily decline (assuming you maintain fixed salinity).

How far that can be pushed before organisms start to respond negatively to excessive chloride and deficient, I do not know. Sulfate is not generally something that organisms want since seawater has loads of it. Usually they maintain less inside than is in seawater. So perhaps it can drop a long way before it matters, but it is unnatural to do so.

All for Reef uses calcium formate and there's no way that one can incorporate hydroxide into it (that makes it kalkwasser). The one part version of All For reef using hydroxide is kalkwasser (but fewer trace elements)..

RSnodgrass · Jul 21, 2022

Do we know at what concentration we can mix these combined chemicals in RO at and still achieve full solubility?

I realize there are advantages to lowering concentrations and I'm also comfortable with the materials I'm using to contain/safety handle the highly caustic part 2.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 21, 2022

RSnodgrass said:
Do we know at what concentration we can mix these combined chemicals in RO at and still achieve full solubility?

I realize there are advantages to lowering concentrations and I'm also comfortable with the materials I'm using to contain/safety handle the highly caustic part 2.

Which ones?

You can make the basic parts (sodium hydroxide, calcium carbonate and mag Cl + SO4) much more concentrated if you want. But that doesn't mean its a good idea, especially the alk part. the more concentrated it is, the higher the local pH when you add it and the more likely is precipitation of calcium carbonate.

RSnodgrass · Jul 22, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Which ones?

You can make the basic parts (sodium hydroxide, calcium carbonate and mag Cl + SO4) much more concentrated if you want. But that doesn't mean its a good idea, especially the alk part. the more concentrated it is, the higher the local pH when you add it and the more likely is precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Sorry, was referring to Part 1 and 2 (sodium hydroxide version).

I'm trying to work out a few things, such as, if my current dose of sodium hydroxide is precipitating. I don't see evidence of it but could be wrong.

Will adding the the sodium sulfate into sodium hydroxide increase the likelihood of precipitation (during dosing) since they are combined?

Will the total impact to pH be the same amount regardless of precipitation occurring or not?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 22, 2022

RSnodgrass said:
Sorry, was referring to Part 1 and 2 (sodium hydroxide version).

I'm trying to work out a few things, such as, if my current dose of sodium hydroxide is precipitating. I don't see evidence of it but could be wrong.

Will adding the the sodium sulfate into sodium hydroxide increase the likelihood of precipitation (during dosing) since they are combined?

Will the total impact to pH be the same amount regardless of precipitation occurring or not?

What actually did you make?

Sodium hydroxide alone cannot precipitate from any solution you are likely to try to make. Solubility of it is close to 1 kg/L (yes kg) at 25 deg C.

Sodium sulfate has solubility of about 280 g/L. Sodium hydroxide present too will reduce that considerably due to something called the 'common ion" effect.

RSnodgrass · Jul 22, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
What actually did you make?

Sodium hydroxide alone cannot precipitate from any solution you are likely to try to make. Solubility of it is close to 1 kg/L (yes kg) at 25 deg C.

Sodium sulfate has solubility of about 280 g/L. Sodium hydroxide present too will reduce that considerably due to something called the 'common ion" effect.

Currently I'm dosing all for reef plus a small amount of sodium hydroxide at a 22% concentration.

Previously it was mentioned that dosing too high of a concentration of Part 2 would increase the probability of precipitation. So I'm trying to understand if precipitation only occurs when dosing a pre-mix of hydroxide and sulfate or also if dosed separately.

Part of my curiosity is because if sodium hydroxide dosed directly to tank (by itself) won't precipite then I know my current dose volume is reliable.

The pH effects with or without precipitation were to help me gage if the pH boosting effects of my current dose are reliable or if they too are tied to a potential precipitation.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 22, 2022

RSnodgrass said:
Currently I'm dosing all for reef plus a small amount of sodium hydroxide at a 22% concentration.

Previously it was mentioned that dosing too high of a concentration of Part 2 would increase the probability of precipitation. So I'm trying to understand if precipitation only occurs when dosing a pre-mix of hydroxide and sulfate or also if dosed separately.

Part of my curiosity is because if sodium hydroxide dosed directly to tank (by itself) won't precipite then I know my current dose volume is reliable.

The pH effects with or without precipitation were to help me gage if the pH boosting effects of my current dose are reliable or if they too are tied to a potential precipitation.

That comment relates to precipitation when it hits the tank water. Sulfate won’t have a big effect on that.

Hot2na · Jul 26, 2022

I was doing some research and came across a strange factoid. I have a hard time putting faith in the opinion of a "chemist" who recommended Home Depot Ice Melt as a magnesium source for Reef Aquaria? Afterward Reef Central had to print a retraction because of the obvious toxicity danger... Might be the same guy who says he doesn't trust all the claims made by poly filter ?

RSnodgrass · Jul 26, 2022

Hot2na said:
I was doing some research and came across a strange factoid. I have a hard time putting faith in the opinion of a "chemist" who recommended Home Depot Ice Melt as a magnesium source for Reef Aquaria? Afterward Reef Central had to print a retraction because of the obvious toxicity danger... Might be the same guy who says he doesn't trust all the claims made by poly filter ?

Not sure how long you have been reefing but the advancements in knowledge/equipment/materials over just the past decade is insurmountable. Context is everything...