New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If using the sodium hydroxide version, how high of pH is too high?

My pH is already 8.1-8.3 and I use Recipe #1.

IMO, pH above 8.6 is experimental and will likely result in excessive calcium carbonate precipitation.

Most users cannot get there while maintaining normal alkalinity.

 

[wmb0003]

Ok so I made the higher pH version alkalinity using the sodium hydroxide. I made 2.5 gallons worth in a 3 gallon water jug. A few days or a week after I made it; the solution ate through the plastic jug and spilled out everywhere... Luckily I was storing in my garage until I was ready to use it so the cleanup wasn't bad. My question is, what did I do wrong? I mixed it for probably 10 min; but there might have been some granules/sediment still at the bottom. I assume this is what ate through the plastic. Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[Miami Reef]

Ok so I made the higher pH version alkalinity using the sodium hydroxide. I made 2.5 gallons worth in a 3 gallon water jug. A few days or a week after I made it; the solution ate through the plastic jug and spilled out everywhere... Luckily I was storing in my garage until I was ready to use it so the cleanup wasn't bad. My question is, what did I do wrong? I mixed it for probably 10 min; but there might have been some granules/sediment still at the bottom. I assume this is what ate through the plastic. Any suggestions are welcome!

I don’t know what material that bottle is made from, but sodium hydroxide can be stored in glass or polyethylene (HDPE or LDPE). Polyethylene is used in vinegar bottles. There are many materials that are incompatible with hydroxide solutions, so I’m glad you weren’t harmed with this because that could have been dangerous.

I would mix the solution in glass (borosilicate is best as it’s extremely resistant to heat). Regular glass works as well, but make sure you don’t add too much hydroxide to a small amount of water because it will get very hot and may even shatter, and then transfer to a polyethylene container once it cooled down.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It looks like polycarbonate, which is unsuitable for high pH additives. I think we discussed it in this thread, but maybe that was elsewhere.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Ok so I made the higher pH version alkalinity using the sodium hydroxide. I made 2.5 gallons worth in a 3 gallon water jug. A few days or a week after I made it; the solution ate through the plastic jug and spilled out everywhere... Luckily I was storing in my garage until I was ready to use it so the cleanup wasn't bad. My question is, what did I do wrong? I mixed it for probably 10 min; but there might have been some granules/sediment still at the bottom. I assume this is what ate through the plastic. Any suggestions are welcome!

Ouch!

Some materials are not suitable for high pH solutions.

I dont know that brand, but it should have a recycle symbol on the bottom which you could post.

 

[Gtinnel]

I assume putting the solution in an acrylic dosing container is fine? I’d prefer not to dump 2 liters of solution into my living room floor.

 

[Gungo]

Hello Randy,

Is it possible to have this recipe with sodium bicarbonate? I don't really have problems with low ph and what I use is the sodium bicarbonate recipe. I'm looking to increase the potency of my current dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hello Randy,

Is it possible to have this recipe with sodium bicarbonate? I don't really have problems with low ph and what I use is the sodium bicarbonate recipe. I'm looking to increase the potency of my current dosing.

Certainly.

Here’s the basic diy:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

And if you mean to make it like the recipe here with sodium sulfate and such, use the original recipe baking soda amount (297 g, or 1 1/8 cups) and drop everything else from page 1 of this thread to half the stated strength since bicarbonate is less soluble.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I assume putting the solution in an acrylic dosing container is fine? I’d prefer not to dump 2 liters of solution into my living room floor.

Probably. I’ve not tested acrylic at high pH.

 

[Gungo]

Another question,

Is it possible to add magnesium sulfate instead of sodium sulfate to the sodium carbonate formula first stated in this thread?

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part
Dissolve 374.7 g of sodium carbonate (594 g of baking soda that has been baked; = 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Another question,

Is it possible to add magnesium sulfate instead of sodium sulfate to the sodium carbonate formula first stated in this thread?

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part
Dissolve 374.7 g of sodium carbonate (594 g of baking soda that has been baked; = 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

No. Sodium sulfate is required. That is why the original recipe was three parts: magnesium hydroxide will precipitate.

 

[Gungo]

Thank you. What about just using soda ash and calcium chloride at the potency of ESV? Is it possible without magnesium chloride or sodium sulfate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you. What about just using soda ash and calcium chloride at the potency of ESV? Is it possible without magnesium chloride or sodium sulfate?

My original recipe (that BRS uses) is here. I compare the pros and cons of various magnesium parts:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

With Epsom salt only (which is the unimproved recipe) either sulfate accumulates or magnesium is likely to decline.

 

[Muffin87]

Good quality is all that matters. Flake, pellet, whatever. Food grade is good:

Amazon product ASIN B013KMNCJU

Somehow, Food grade NaOH is not a thing where I live. 98% is the highest purity I can find. Does it matter?
Should I buy from the only vendor that sells 99.99% sodium hydroxide?

Thanks a lot for all the help!

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

Ouch!

Some materials are not suitable for high pH solutions.

I dont know that brand, but it should have a recycle symbol on the bottom which you could post.

Yep. And folks need to watch TA with the dosing tubes they're using too. The older versa pump tubing can't even stand up to kalk. I've had 2 melt through with a ph of only 12.4. Big mess, and leaked into the pump itself. I heard they redid the tubing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Somehow, Food grade NaOH is not a thing where I live. 98% is the highest purity I can find. Does it matter?
Should I buy from the only vendor that sells 99.99% sodium hydroxide?

Thanks a lot for all the help!

The advantage of a grade as opposed to a percent is it helps know what the impurities may (or may not) be. 99.99% is almost certainly adequate, and may be far better than food grade.

In Europe, you may be able to get EP (European pharmacopia) BP (British pharmacopia). Other good grades are USP, FCC, JP, NF,

 

[trevorhiller]

Randy, could you validate this dosing strategy sometime? My main questions are in italics, but I posted the measurements here just for clarity because after reading 36 pages, my brain hurts and I hope the numbers might benefit someone else.

Kalkwasser dosed at maximum evaporation limit dosed on a pump 24/7 continuously.

+

Calcium Part (dosing pump):
Bulk Reef Supply Calcium Chloride 135.80 grams/Liter (514 grams/gallon)

Alkalinity Part (dosing pump):
Bulk Reef Supply Soda Ash 100.66 grams/Liter (381 grams/gallon)

OR

Sodium Hydroxide 74.72 grams/Liter (282.8 grams/gallon)

These two alk solutions add the same amount of alkalinity per/mL, correct? I'd like to have the ability to mix/match them in one jug to tweak pH if it goes higher than I'd like with all NaOH.

Magnesium Part (dosed manually as needed):
Bulk Reef Supply Magnesium Chloride 246.50 grams/Liter (933 grams/gallon) + Magnesium Sulfate 87.71 grams/Liter (332 grams/gallon) [aka Bulk Reef Supply Magnesium Mix for 2-Part Dosing Recipe]

Is this the correct mag mix ratio to use with this overall scenario?

Balling C Solution at 2x the rate of Alk (dosed manually weekly)
TM Balling C Powder 24.04 grams/Liter (91 grams/gallon)

Balling C is dosed at 2x Alk dosing rate--is this the same case for NaOH?

Tropic Marin A/K dosed manually daily (not mixed).

I believe this covers Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and Trace elements while gaining maximum pH boost and preventing salinity drift and imbalances. That's the goal of this "RHF-BRS-Balling-Kalkwasser Ultra Hybrid Method". o_O

I appreciate your time as usual!

Reference:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brs-bulk-pharma-tropic-marin-hybrid-balling-method

 

[trevorhiller]

Randy, could you validate this dosing strategy sometime? My main questions are in italics, but I posted the measurements here just for clarity because after reading 36 pages, my brain hurts and I hope the numbers might benefit someone else.

Kalkwasser dosed at maximum evaporation limit dosed on a pump 24/7 continuously.

+

Calcium Part (dosing pump):
Bulk Reef Supply Calcium Chloride 135.80 grams/Liter (514 grams/gallon)

Alkalinity Part (dosing pump):
Bulk Reef Supply Soda Ash 100.66 grams/Liter (381 grams/gallon)

OR

Sodium Hydroxide 74.72 grams/Liter (282.8 grams/gallon)

These two alk solutions add the same amount of alkalinity per/mL, correct? I'd like to have the ability to mix/match them in one jug to tweak pH if it goes higher than I'd like with all NaOH.

Magnesium Part (dosed manually as needed):
Bulk Reef Supply Magnesium Chloride 246.50 grams/Liter (933 grams/gallon) + Magnesium Sulfate 87.71 grams/Liter (332 grams/gallon) [aka Bulk Reef Supply Magnesium Mix for 2-Part Dosing Recipe]

Is this the correct mag mix ratio to use with this overall scenario?

Balling C Solution at 2x the rate of Alk (dosed manually weekly)
TM Balling C Powder 24.04 grams/Liter (91 grams/gallon)

Balling C is dosed at 2x Alk dosing rate--is this the same case for NaOH?

Tropic Marin A/K dosed manually daily (not mixed).

I believe this covers Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and Trace elements while gaining maximum pH boost and preventing salinity drift and imbalances. That's the goal of this "RHF-BRS-Balling-Kalkwasser Ultra Hybrid Method". o_O

I appreciate your time as usual!

Reference:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brs-bulk-pharma-tropic-marin-hybrid-balling-method

I should add that I realize this is far from the simplest dosing method, but I enjoy learning about the chemistry and making my own solutions. I also have a trident that gives me daily calcium, alk and mag levels so my ultimate goal is individual control + pH boost. Something lacking from my previous dosing method (All For Reef). The kalk is just there because it’s cheap, easy and already in place.

 

[Miami Reef]

1) Soda Carbonate & Sodium hydroxide will have the same alkalinity boost when you follow Randy’s recipes.

2) If you are going to use Tropic Balling Part C, the magnesium mix will be slightly different:

Yes but if you want to be as perfect as possible, it's a different mix. 11:1 chloride to sulfate.

There's lots of magnesium in Balling Part C. More than anything else except chloride and sulfate (and possibly sodium, depending on how they formulated it).

That said, it's not a perfect solution for magnesium because it doesn't add magnesium to offset consumption, just to offset the effect of dilution by the two part sodium and chloride additions.

I'd use the Part C for routine dosing, and then if magnesium starts to get low, give occasional corrections with a magnesium additive.

Do-It-Yourself Magnesium Supplements for the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

3. Using both Epsom salts and MAG flake, dissolve 7¼ cups MAG flake and ¾ cup Epsom salts in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is preferred, but its advantage over recipe #2 is minimal in most cases.


Note also that this recipe (#3) is different from that given in my DIY two-part recipe, because in that case more magnesium sulfate is necessary to offset the rise in chloride that is provided by both the calcium chloride and the magnesium chloride.

 

[Miami Reef]

Is this the correct mag mix ratio to use with this overall scenario?

Balling C Solution at 2x the rate of Alk (dosed manually weekly)
TM Balling C Powder 24.04 grams/Liter (91 grams/gallon)

Why 2x?

Kalkwasser does NOT have a salinity imbalance effect. You would follow the mixing instructions of balling part C (91g/gal) and dose equal amounts of soda ash, calcium, and balling.

You can technically dose balling once a week, but it isn’t ideal.

Balling Part C is NOT a trace element additive. It is used to prevent skewing the salinity toward sodium and chloride.