New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[gbroadbridge]

Randy, could you validate this dosing strategy sometime? My main questions are in italics, but I posted the measurements here just for clarity because after reading 36 pages, my brain hurts and I hope the numbers might benefit someone else.

Kalkwasser dosed at maximum evaporation limit dosed on a pump 24/7 continuously.

+

Calcium Part (dosing pump):
Bulk Reef Supply Calcium Chloride 135.80 grams/Liter (514 grams/gallon)

Alkalinity Part (dosing pump):
Bulk Reef Supply Soda Ash 100.66 grams/Liter (381 grams/gallon)

OR

Sodium Hydroxide 74.72 grams/Liter (282.8 grams/gallon)

These two alk solutions add the same amount of alkalinity per/mL, correct? I'd like to have the ability to mix/match them in one jug to tweak pH if it goes higher than I'd like with all NaOH.

Magnesium Part (dosed manually as needed):
Bulk Reef Supply Magnesium Chloride 246.50 grams/Liter (933 grams/gallon) + Magnesium Sulfate 87.71 grams/Liter (332 grams/gallon) [aka Bulk Reef Supply Magnesium Mix for 2-Part Dosing Recipe]

Is this the correct mag mix ratio to use with this overall scenario?

Balling C Solution at 2x the rate of Alk (dosed manually weekly)
TM Balling C Powder 24.04 grams/Liter (91 grams/gallon)

Balling C is dosed at 2x Alk dosing rate--is this the same case for NaOH?

Tropic Marin A/K dosed manually daily (not mixed).

I believe this covers Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and Trace elements while gaining maximum pH boost and preventing salinity drift and imbalances. That's the goal of this "RHF-BRS-Balling-Kalkwasser Ultra Hybrid Method". o_O

I appreciate your time as usual!

Reference:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brs-bulk-pharma-tropic-marin-hybrid-balling-method

I don't see anything adding trace elements.

You need to do that separately or rely on regular water changes to top them up.

 

[trevorhiller]

I don't see anything adding trace elements.

You need to do that separately or rely on regular water changes to top them up.

I’m planning on using the tropic Marin Trace A/K dosed separately, it’s way down there at the end of the original post.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My magnesium part and Balling Part C are somewhat redundant (both are mostly magnesium and contain a lot of sulfate) and I do not recommend both. Use balling C and then only use the mag part if testing suggests a need. The ratio won’t matter too much, but in that scenario use the stand alone mag ratio of 11:1.

The Balling C is used at the rate that BRS recommends for the soda ash recipe.

 

[trevorhiller]

My magnesium part and Balling Part C are somewhat redundant (both are mostly magnesium and contain a lot of sulfate) and I do not recommend both. Use balling C and then only use the mag part if testing suggests a need. The ratio won’t matter too much, but in that scenario use the stand alone mag ratio of 11:1.

The Balling C is used at the rate that BRS recommends for the soda ash recipe.

Thanks randy, that was kind of my plan. Only dose the mag when it goes low since I have daily mag readings whether I want them or not with Trident.

the magnesium and sulfate portions were kind of confusing since your two part combined them but I’m not doing that, so I wanted to verify the ratios.

I appreciate you taking the time to look that over.

 

[trevorhiller]

1) Soda Carbonate & Sodium hydroxide will have the same alkalinity boost when you follow Randy’s recipes.

2) If you are going to use Tropic Balling Part C, the magnesium mix will be slightly different:

Why 2x?

Kalkwasser does NOT have a salinity imbalance effect. You would follow the mixing instructions of balling part C (91g/gal) and dose equal amounts of soda ash, calcium, and balling.

You can technically dose balling once a week, but it isn’t ideal.

Balling Part C is NOT a trace element additive. It is used to prevent skewing the salinity toward sodium and chloride.

I pulled the measurements and numbers right off of this page. I've read BRS uses Randy's recipe, but I don't know if this is specifically the one they got from him as it has Balling C incorporated in it.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brs-bulk-pharma-tropic-marin-hybrid-balling-method
I basically want this recipe with Sodium Hydroxide instead of Soda Ash as they have listed.

You're saying their listed magnesium mix isn't ideal and I should do 933 grams Magnesium Chloride and 84.82 grams Magnesium Sulfate per Gallon for 11 to 1 ratio as needed and dose Balling C routinely?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You're saying their listed magnesium mix isn't ideal and I should do 933 grams Magnesium Chloride and 84.82 grams Magnesium Sulfate per Gallon for 11 to 1 ratio as needed and dose Balling C routinely?

The listed magnesium recipe is best if not using Balling Part C. If using Part C, the one you mentioned us vests if you need extra magnesium.

 

[Saltyanimals]

Read through all 37 pages. Reading comprehension and retention is now going to be tested as I embark on this new Sodium Hydroxide journey. lol.

I'm running a CaRX and biopellets in a energy efficient home that is likely too well sealed all contributing to the CO2 thus pH problem in my reef. I plan to back down the CaRX when starting the Part 2 dosing as to not overdose the alk. Question is to the Part C. I see the keeping balance part and potentially trace elements, but what are the things to be concerned about if running Part 2 Sodium Hydroxide alone in tandem with the CaRX with manual weekly trace element supplements? I saw salinity creep which I'm fine with scooping a bit of tank water out occasionally to let fresh ATO rebalance. No biggie.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Read through all 37 pages. Reading comprehension and retention is now going to be tested as I embark on this new Sodium Hydroxide journey. lol.

I'm running a CaRX and biopellets in a energy efficient home that is likely too well sealed all contributing to the CO2 thus pH problem in my reef. I plan to back down the CaRX when starting the Part 2 dosing as to not overdose the alk. Question is to the Part C. I see the keeping balance part and potentially trace elements, but what are the things to be concerned about if running Part 2 Sodium Hydroxide alone in tandem with the CaRX with manual weekly trace element supplements? I saw salinity creep which I'm fine with scooping a bit of tank water out occasionally to let fresh ATO rebalance. No biggie.

The issue is that using just calcium chloride and sodium (bicarbonate/carbonate/hydroxide) continually adds sodium and chloride.
Assuming you maintain salinity (you need to), then every time you correct the salinity downward, everything drops, not just trace elements. Potassium, sulfate, bromide and on and on. That's what Part C adds.

In a year of adding 1.1 dKH and no additions or water changes, everything except sodium and chloride (and calcum/alk and any impurities in the products) is depleted by a factor of 22.5%.

This recent post has more:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/unbalance-na-cl-based-products-question.964613/#post-11035608

 

[Saltyanimals]

Hi Randy,

Glad you raised the no water change position as that's exactly my camp thus I rely on dosing to replenish. i.e. weekly trace and other water supplements. If everything else drops not just trace, then dosing potassium, sulfate, bromide etc manually could keep it in balance?

I mixed up a test 1000ml at 1.5x (~110 g of NaOH to 1000 ml RODI) and started today. Doing only 2 ml/hour at the moment into a 180g. I'm still trying to figure out the balance between CaRX and NaOH dosing so starting very minimum just to introduce it into the system and establishing a baseline. I don't expect 48ml/daily into 180g is going to do much so I have time to adjust and react. The calculator shows that I need to add 347 ml of ESV Bicarbonate Syst Pt1 to raise 1 dKH in my 180g. My 48ml shouldn't have any impact but maybe to observe the pH rise. @Mindi in the first several pages of this thread seem to be heading the direction I'm looking for. I don't want/need any benefits for this solution except to boost pH since I'm running the CaRX

I've seen folks use kalk dosing and/or in a kalk stirrer to supplement their CaRX as a combo to help with pH. I'm assuming this NaOH dosing in place of kalk since it's more potent and I'm able to use less solution thus less refill if compared to saturated kalk traditional dosing.

Am I approaching this in the wrong way and I should just still to kalk dosing supplement? Accept the refill effort for saturated kalk in a doser!?

 

[Saltyanimals]

Same, but not limited in dosing by evaporation rates. :)

Reread the earlier response when someone asked about the pH impact of sodium hydroxide vs kalk. Randy's response was same, however it appears there's a saturation limit with kalk where sodium hydroxide seems to be able to mix significantly more potentially. i.e. dose less for same results = less solution to refill?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Reread the earlier response when someone asked about the pH impact of sodium hydroxide vs kalk. Randy's response was same, however it appears there's a saturation limit with kalk where sodium hydroxide seems to be able to mix significantly more potentially. i.e. dose less for same results = less solution to refill?

Yes, the pH effect per unit of alk added is the same, but the volume of water needed with sodium hydroxide is much less.

 

[Saltyanimals]

Yes, the pH effect per unit of alk added is the same, but the volume of water needed with sodium hydroxide is much less.

That confirms it! =) I'll use sodium hydroxide as an alternative to kalk given the less volume of water needed thus ability to make it super potent.

This thread is about an alternative 2 part recipe with a higher pH. You've addressed earlier that one should doing both parts 1 and 2 to keep the balance. Sounds like without it one might address the imbalance somehow.

However I did overlook something which I can't believe I did. PART 2 recipe calls for sodium hydroxide + sodium sulfate. What if the sodium sulfate is omitted altogether and dose a sodium hydroxide only solution. Will it continue to increase kalk and pH again serving as a kalk alternative? I accidently missed the sodium sulfate and have been dosing without this ingredient in the recipe for half a day. pH seems to be elevated, but not sure of any other advise affect especially over time.

 

[Justdrew]

How important are the magnesium and sulfate components if weekly 10% water changed are done? I am talking both option when mixed with alk and cal or done as a true 3 part. Will weekly water changes keep everything in balance?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How important are the magnesium and sulfate components if weekly 10% water changed are done? I am talking both option when mixed with alk and cal or done as a true 3 part. Will weekly water changes keep everything in balance?

A water change cannot eliminate the problem, but certainly reduces it.

I’d personally use Balling Part C for the third part. That works better than water changes for this purpose, and is likely cheaper than water changes anyway.

 

[Asthix]

Currently dosing 220ml for a 150G tank, consumption is still increasing (roughly 2dKh° per day).
How high should I be concerned?
May I start to dose baking soda instead of sodium hydroxide let's say when over 8.5?

Probe has been just calibrated few days ago

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Seems ok, but demand will be higher at this higher pH.

 

[GSnake]

I've switched to this recipe from the original and All for reef, for the PH boost, its been great.

Im wondering how strong I can make the solutions. so ESV is 1.5, but I'm looking to make a 2x strength. is 3x or 4x possible? what are the solubility limits

 

[Shark.Bait]

I've been reading over these threads over the last few days. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge! I'd like to incorporate a 2-part solution that will raise my pH as high as possible to replace kalk in my ATO.

I saw this pH boost recipe in another thread. Could you help me to understand the difference in these two recipes, I'm having trouble combing through the threads to compare:

From the other thread:
Alk part
Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin. Keep all reef chemicals, especially this alk part, in a way that children cannot access them.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

VS the "Sodium hydroxide version" from post 1 in this thread.

Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've switched to this recipe from the original and All for reef, for the PH boost, its been great.

Im wondering how strong I can make the solutions. so ESV is 1.5, but I'm looking to make a 2x strength. is 3x or 4x possible? what are the solubility limits

There's no practical solution solubility limit for the alk part. It can be more solids than water. The calcum part is not far behind.

there may be usage reasons, however, to not concentrate it too much. You want the alk part to mix in fast. The more concentrated it is to start, the harder that is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've been reading over these threads over the last few days. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge! I'd like to incorporate a 2-part solution that will raise my pH as high as possible to replace kalk in my ATO.

I saw this pH boost recipe in another thread. Could you help me to understand the difference in these two recipes, I'm having trouble combing through the threads to compare:

From the other thread:
Alk part
Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin. Keep all reef chemicals, especially this alk part, in a way that children cannot access them.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

VS the "Sodium hydroxide version" from post 1 in this thread.

Thank you!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randy-recommended-diy-two-part-recipes.984604/
My recommendation is recipe C. A three part using Balling Part C for third part.

Two other recipes are a two part or a three part using sodium hydroxide. I'd personally use the three part described in post 1 of this thread:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/