New fish quarantine API general cure directions?

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal in theory couldn’t a tank filled with only foxface rabbitfish flat out kill ich and end it’s lifecycle because of the lethal serum they produce the ich will keep dying and wouldn’t be able to encyst it would mean doom for the ich essentially..

No, foxface develop marine ich at just a slightly lower rate than say, angelfish or tangs. Their skin mucus does not offer protection for acute cases of ich.

You are likely referring to this article:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30238188/
The trouble with that paper is, 1) that is a different species of Siganid, and 2) these one-off Chinese papers really need to be read carefully in full, not just the abstract, in order to avoid over-extrapolation.

There are people who spend a lot of time searching for research papers and then trying to extrapolate the results to aquariums, but that often fails. Empirically, we know that foxface develop and die from ich in aquariums at just about the same rate as other fish.....

 

[Arose231]

No, foxface develop marine ich at just a slightly lower rate than say, angelfish or tangs. Their skin mucus does not offer protection for acute cases of ich.

You are likely referring to this article:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30238188/
The trouble with that paper is, 1) that is a different species of Siganid, and 2) these one-off Chinese papers really need to be read carefully in full, not just the abstract, in order to avoid over-extrapolation.

There are people who spend a lot of time searching for research papers and then trying to extrapolate the results to aquariums, but that often fails. Empirically, we know that foxface develop and die from ich in aquariums at just about the same rate as other fish.....

@Jay Hemdal

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20117218/
This is the article that states the protein and serum they carry can flat out kill ich

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal

Here is the other article as well

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21333741/

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20117218/
This is the article that states the protein and serum they carry can flat out kill ich

Again, that’s another species, and empirically, we know this isn’t true - foxface develop ich and die from it without proper treatment.

 

[Arose231]

Again, that’s another species, and empirically, we know this isn’t true - foxface develop ich and die from it without proper treatment.

@Jay Hemdal many fish can develop ich but those that survive it build immunity towards it temporarily and if the foxface do survive it there serum basically keeps killing it

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal many fish can develop ich but those that survive it build immunity towards it temporarily and if the foxface do survive it there serum basically keeps killing it

Acquired immunity towards Cryptocaryon is partial and only temporary. Many fish species are resistant to it, like mandarins. However, propagule pressure comes into play - if there is a heavy infection, with lots of tomites in the water, any partial immunity can be overwhelmed.

I’ll say it one more time - foxface will succumb to ich in aquariums at virtually the same rate as angelfish and butterflies. Their protective slime coat is not effective in stopping active infections in aquariums. We know this based on experience and reports we get from others.

 

[Arose231]

Acquired immunity towards Cryptocaryon is partial and only temporary. Many fish species are resistant to it, like mandarins. However, propagule pressure comes into play - if there is a heavy infection, with lots of tomites in the water, any partial immunity can be overwhelmed.

I’ll say it one more time - foxface will succumb to ich in aquariums at virtually the same rate as angelfish and butterflies. Their protective slime coat is not effective in stopping active infections in aquariums. We know this based on experience and reports we get from others.

Yes some will but the one that do survive basically become defensive wall against ich

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal i just finished 23 day qt with aneomne they were never attached to a rock. So do i just reaclimate now for 30 minutes and keep the wave maker off in the new tank for them to adjust?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal i just finished 23 day qt with aneomne they were never attached to a rock. So do i just reaclimate now for 30 minutes and keep the wave maker off in the new tank for them to adjust?

I generally isolate invertebrates for 30 days if they came from a system with fish in it, 60 days if those fish could have done disease.

What species of anemone?
How do the anemones look? They should have attached to something (depending on the species).

If the salinity is the same, yes, 30 minutes to acclimate is fine, and then give them a current-free time to attach to something.

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal do you think a 125 gallon is too small for a full grown blue hippo tang with how big and active they are?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal do you think a 125 gallon is too small for a full grown blue hippo tang with how big and active they are?

That depends on then”full gown size” and how much open water swimming space the tank has. I’ve seen a lot of variability in the size of these fish.

Here is a calculator that I developed that can help folks estimate that:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/estimating-the-need-for-swimming-space-for-aquarium-fishes.801/

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal how long do you recommend to wait to reuse praziquantal in an established display for it to be effective again and last long enough for at least 2 courses? Was it 3 or 4 months you said? As well do you recommend cleaning the aquarium filters to reset the biomedia a little bit before adding prazi?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal how long do you recommend to wait to reuse praziquantal in an established display for it to be effective again and last long enough for at least 2 courses? Was it 3 or 4 months you said? As well do you recommend cleaning the aquarium filters to reset the biomedia a little bit before adding prazi?

Sorry - I don’t know. This bacteria certainly lasted 3 months in my own tanks. It typically shows up after 3 or 4 treatments. To clean the filters, you need to sterilize them with bleach. Then of course it takes time to grow the beneficial bacteria back.