New Fish Unwell - Please Help

[GiannisK]

So I got a firefish yesterday as my first fish for my new tank. He had a long drive from the LFS because they are all so far away, and with acclimation was in his bag for about an hour and a half. It was a pretty small bag they gave me too.

He’s in a quarantine tank, temp 77 and pH 8.4, salinity 1.025-1.026. No nitrite or nitrate. It’s being treated with Nox-Ich and I also added the seachem stress coat. A small filter is running with only a sponge, mostly for aeration.

Ammonia is at 0.25. I added some top fin ammonia down cause I just had some but it probably doesn’t do anything right? I also have a brand new seachem ammonia alert badge which shows it being at less than 0.02, not sure what to trust. The 0.25 is from a freshwater API kit, I assumed it would work fine.

Yesterday he was laying low and hidden near the corner when he first came out as expected. Later during the day he was out and exploring, looking quite better.

This morning however, he’s really really hiding inside the decor. I’m not sure if he’s worse or if I’m overreacting and he just needs some time. I don’t see any disease symptoms but he is breathing rather slowly.

What can I do better? Normally I would change the water due to the ammonia but he seems so stressed from all the change, Im not sure if I should stress him more. I also don’t know for sure if the ammonia is high when one test is telling me one thing and one another thing. The API test is telling me 0.25 both yesterday and this morning, and the ammonia badge is still saying 0 after about 20 hours.

Any help would be appreciated! This is my first saltwater fish so I might be making many mistakes.

 

[MnFish1]

Congrats on making the plunge into saltwater!!

A couple comments:

1. Seems like you may be using too many products - which may affect the medications you're using as well. Do you not have RODI water to make up your salt water? Are you using stress coat for chlorine reduction - or something else - if for chlorine reduction I would verify that it's compatible with the medications you're using. The best recommendation for water is to use RODI from a fish store - or your own made water - then you would not need a chlorine product
2. I would the seachem alert to follow your ammonia. I would not be overly concerned with an ammonia of 0.25 (My guess is that your ammonia is 0 even with API) - but it is a symptom of a potential rise - and you should be able to do water changes.
3. There is a quarantine protocol which we recommend posted as a sticky on the top of the fish disease forum. It involves copper and prazipro - the details are there. I am not sure the medications you're using are helping.).
4. Many ammonia lowering chemicals can cause issues with copper and possibly other medications - I do not know if the ammonia lowering product you added affects copper levels/toxicity - perhaps you can check their website?
5. Water changes are ok to do in QT. They are less stressful than a high ammonia level.
6. It's normal for fire fish to hide. Watch for spots, rapid breathing, etc.
7. I can't tell what decoration / hiding place you're using - but the best type is something thats inert - like PVC, etc.

Hope this helps - if you have more questions - ask. PS I would consider changing over to the protocol we use here - if you can get the proper copper and copper testing equipment

 

[GiannisK]

Thanks for your reply. I’m not allowed to install a RODI system in my apartment and buying water is too expensive. I have decided that since I’m going for a fish only tank, I’m going to take the risks with the dechlorinated tap water.

Would you recommend a partial or a complete water change? I was somewhat following the BRS 80/20 quarantine, just with malachite green instead of copper, which is what “nox-ich” basically is. I’ve heard very mixed reviews on copper. I’m definitely open to buying prazipro (which I’ve used before) and copper power (which is chelated copper and won’t react with a dechlorinator.

I’ll do research on how effective this “ammonia down” thing is but I don’t have high hopes.

I’ll also get a couple PVC tubes for the hiding.

If it’s my water by itself that has high ammonia, due to the tap and/or conditioner, would you recommend adding some bio media to the QT filter? Would malachite green or copper kill those bacteria?

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Uncle99]

Looks normal to me for a few days new.
Shy and skiddish, are this fish behavior.
If he’s in a cycled tank, I just leave him alone. He’ll settle.
Will he eat yet?

 

[GiannisK]

Looks normal to me for a few days new.
Shy and skiddish, are this fish behavior.
If he’s in a cycled tank, I just leave him alone. He’ll settle.
Will he eat yet?

He’s in a quarantine tank with brand new water. I gave some pellets yesterday but he didn’t go for them so I removed them after 10 minutes or so.

 

[GiannisK]

Any more advice? He's still not eating, it's day 3. The parameters are all good.

 

[Spare time]

Thanks for your reply. I’m not allowed to install a RODI system in my apartment and buying water is too expensive. I have decided that since I’m going for a fish only tank, I’m going to take the risks with the dechlorinated tap water.

Would you recommend a partial or a complete water change? I was somewhat following the BRS 80/20 quarantine, just with malachite green instead of copper, which is what “nox-ich” basically is. I’ve heard very mixed reviews on copper. I’m definitely open to buying prazipro (which I’ve used before) and copper power (which is chelated copper and won’t react with a dechlorinator.

I’ll do research on how effective this “ammonia down” thing is but I don’t have high hopes.

I’ll also get a couple PVC tubes for the hiding.

If it’s my water by itself that has high ammonia, due to the tap and/or conditioner, would you recommend adding some bio media to the QT filter? Would malachite green or copper kill those bacteria?

Thanks for all your help!

You can use a zero water filter instead of an RODI. It is expensive but worth it imo. At least use something like a brita long last or pur plus. Distilled water from the grocery store works, and some stores like larger whole foods sell RODI water (as well as lfs's)

 

[Spare time]

Add a bottle of cycling bacteria like bio spira or fritz turbo to handle ammonia.

 

[Spare time]

Any more advice? He's still not eating, it's day 3. The parameters are all good.

What foods have you tried? Are there hiding places in the QT? Are you still doing malachite green (I wouldn't use that, but rather do the copper/prazi route)

 

[GiannisK]

What foods have you tried? Are there hiding places in the QT? Are you still doing malachite green (I wouldn't use that, but rather do the copper/prazi route)

There's a hollow barrels decoration he hides in often. I tried some omega 3 and tdo chroma boost pellets. It's still in the first dose of malachite green.

 

[GiannisK]

Update: he seems to have adjusted a bit. He's out and about more. He even ate some pellets.

 

[Uncle99]

Update: he seems to have adjusted a bit. He's out and about more. He even ate some pellets.

Positive update…He ate!
Getting hungry I see.
Good luck.
No changes, keep eye on Ammonia level.

This behavior may repeat itself when transferred to DT.
Very shy.

 

[GiannisK]

I’m not sure if his swimming is strained or if it’s just how firefish behave? The flow is a 150 gph filter on a 5 gallon QT tank just for aeration. Please advise.

 

[Nemo&Friends]

I have decided that since I’m going for a fish only tank, I’m going to take the risks with the dechlorinated tap water.

If it make you feel any better, I have a FOWLR too, and I have been using tap water for at least 12 years. My oldest fish is probably 14 and my youngest 4, in my large aquarium. Corals must be the one who need perfect water, as my fish and my macro algae are doing very well.
The smaller aquarium has macro algae and fire fish who even spawned a few weeks ago ! So I do not worry too much about the water, and though I aware than all cities water are not identical, my city water is not among the best.

 

[dannyd_]

I’m not sure if his swimming is strained or if it’s just how firefish behave? The flow is a 150 gph filter on a 5 gallon QT tank just for aeration. Please advise.

This is normal, they almost bounce around rather than swim in fluid motions.

 

[GiannisK]

If it make you feel any better, I have a FOWLR too, and I have been using tap water for at least 12 years. My oldest fish is probably 14 and my youngest 4, in my large aquarium. Corals must be the one who need perfect water, as my fish and my macro algae are doing very well.
The smaller aquarium has macro algae and fire fish who even spawned a few weeks ago ! So I do not worry too much about the water, and though I aware than all cities water are not identical, my city water is not among the best.

Thank you!

 

[GiannisK]

This is normal, they almost bounce around rather than swim in fluid motions.

Glad to hear, thanks.

 

[GiannisK]

Hello,

This morning he was sitting down with his dorsal fin folded. He’s been doing that regularly when I close the lights but this morning he continued to do it for a while.

I had the filter at half flow and the air stone turned off cause it seemed like the current was too strong for him. Now he seems to be breathing somewhat heavily and is “yawning.” Could it be lack of oxygen? He has since perked up after I turned the air stone on for a while but is still yawning and breathing somewhat irregularly. Still no visible symptoms.

Any thoughts? My prazipro will arrive today, think I might dose him.

 

[GiannisK]

He is yawning both with and without the airstone.

 

[GiannisK]

He always sits down in the corner when the lights are off.... When I turn the lights on he is always hovering around this one spot (perhaps where he detects the least flow?). His breathing still seems pretty rapid. #DiseaseSquad