new Maroon Clownfish starving itself and spitting out all of its food for 8 or 9 days

[blazin'reefer]

From the video - the "rag tag" look of the fish and the rapid breathing and pelvic fin flicking of the tang all point to flukes. It could be something else I imagine, but flukes would be the typical cause.

I saw the note about your mom possibly ingesting some prazi. I can't speak to that, I have a rule to never give out human medical advice. I always wear gloves and a mask when handling powdered prazi.

thank you jay, with you and vette both confirming it does look like flukes on the tang and that being my initial thought too i will definitely try another prazi dose at full strength instead of 80% asap. The green clown goby though thats in bad shape vette said he didnt think it looked like flukes and thought it could be bacterial or some other parasite, do you agree and if so what would be the best thing to try and save both since he is not eatting much and if its not flukes for him prazi might make him worse. i would have taken a video but saw him for the first time in days yesterday while feeding and didnt think of it at the time. you can kinda see the bumps/growths there tho, major loss of color and also ragged fins over the last day or 2.

I completely understand, if it was prazi that she drank it was the tiniest amount and she seems fine plus they do prescribe it for humans i read too so hopefully nothing bad happens.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

thank you jay, with you and vette both confirming it does look like flukes on the tang and that being my initial thought too i will definitely try another prazi dose at full strength instead of 80% asap. The green clown goby though thats in bad shape vette said he didnt think it looked like flukes and thought it could be bacterial or some other parasite, do you agree and if so what would be the best thing to try and save both since he is not eatting much and if its not flukes for him prazi might make him worse. i would have taken a video but saw him for the first time in days yesterday while feeding and didnt think of it at the time. you can kinda see the bumps/growths there tho, major loss of color and also ragged fins over the last day or 2.

I completely understand, if it was prazi that she drank it was the tiniest amount and she seems fine plus they do prescribe it for humans i read too so hopefully nothing bad happens.

Sorry - I can't see the goby clear enough to try and diagnose that. One thing with these though - when they get ich, they show with REALLY large spots, are you seeing that?

 

[blazin'reefer]

Sorry - I can't see the goby clear enough to try and diagnose that. One thing with these though - when they get ich, they show with REALLY large spots, are you seeing that?

ill try to get a better picture or video if i see him again. They are really large dots but the fact they are not uniform in size and so big and no other fish have any white dots i didnt know it could be ich. If it was ich and i dosed prazi again would it likely starve and kill him in the process being hes not eatting much and if so should i try moving him first maybe or just let it ride?

 

[blazin'reefer]

Sorry - I can't see the goby clear enough to try and diagnose that. One thing with these though - when they get ich, they show with REALLY large spots, are you seeing that?

i just tried feeding again doing the same thing turning the uv off and allowing the goby time to get back to his spot and he ate a bunch again today, aswell as everyone else. i got a much better view of him aswell and took a video, it almost looks his fins are melting or rotting away into a white color but not typical fin rot i have seen in freshwater and some look like its on his body too. What would be my best actions to save both fish? here is the goby video attached below.

 

[vetteguy53081]

i just tried feeding again doing the same thing turning the uv off and allowing the goby time to get back to his spot and he ate a bunch again today, aswell as everyone else. i got a much better view of him aswell and took a video, it almost looks his fins are melting or rotting away into a white color but not typical fin rot i have seen in freshwater and some look like its on his body too. What would be my best actions to save both fish? here is the goby video attached below.

On the clown goby appears to be bacterial but the shimmer from lights make it hard to see

 

[blazin'reefer]

On the clown goby appears to be bacterial but the shimmer from lights make it hard to see

i think that makes sense since it looks like his fins are rotting/dissolving away kinda and i dont think a parasite alone would cause that, after reading up quite a bit more about flukes apparently secondary bacterial infections are extremely common and the fact this showed up the same time as the tang after adding the maroon and the fact my very first and strongest dose of prazi 3 days later he looked almost fine when he had just bumps prior and then it has gotten worse and worse since then this seems like the most logical to me, please correct me if im wrong.

Im thinking right now my best bet is feed heavy again for the 3rd day and hope everyone eats a ton again like the last 2 days and then dose the prazi right after. I dont know if i will be able to leave it in the full 8 days back to back though as you recommended due to their skinny states and already going threw 2 weeks of prazi appetite suppression. Im worried about them starving after my last experience with even just underdosing the prazi but i read prazi is most effective the first 48 hours anyways isnt it? so i will forsure leave it in atleast a few days so i go atleast a bit beyond that. this should still break the lifecycle if i repeat again 8 days later after the first shouldnt it? if this is a bad idea after it already not working once for me then again let me know.

Im still not sure about if it would need an antibiotic or what one i would need for the bacterial infection though if it is. also @Jay Hemdal the video of the goby is on post #64 on here from me just a couple posts up if you can let me know what you think too please.

I swear i tried to condense that post but it still turned into a book again, my bad.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

i think that makes sense since it looks like his fins are rotting/dissolving away kinda and i dont think a parasite alone would cause that, after reading up quite a bit more about flukes apparently secondary bacterial infections are extremely common and the fact this showed up the same time as the tang after adding the maroon and the fact my very first and strongest dose of prazi 3 days later he looked almost fine when he had just bumps prior and then it has gotten worse and worse since then this seems like the most logical to me, please correct me if im wrong.

Im thinking right now my best bet is feed heavy again for the 3rd day and hope everyone eats a ton again like the last 2 days and then dose the prazi right after. I dont know if i will be able to leave it in the full 8 days back to back though as you recommended due to their skinny states and already going threw 2 weeks of prazi appetite suppression. Im worried about them starving after my last experience with even just underdosing the prazi but i read prazi is most effective the first 48 hours anyways isnt it? so i will forsure leave it in atleast a few days so i go atleast a bit beyond that. this should still break the lifecycle if i repeat again 8 days later after the first shouldnt it? if this is a bad idea after it already not working once for me then again let me know.

Im still not sure about if it would need an antibiotic or what one i would need for the bacterial infection though if it is. also @Jay Hemdal the video of the goby is on post #64 on here from me just a couple posts up if you can let me know what you think too please.

I swear i tried to condense that post but it still turned into a book again, my bad.

In the video, I can see sheets of mucus coming off of the goby. That is a common sign of Brooklynella. It can be caused by other things as well though.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

In the video, I can see sheets of mucus coming off of the goby. That is a common sign of Brooklynella. It can be caused by other things as well though.

Jay

can it be caused by a secondary bacterial infection and flukes too or brook is alot more likely? well im kinda losing faith in trying to save him if i cant figure out some sort of treatment just like the clownfish. Basically i can think of 3 options 1) if more likely brook then maybe a hydrogen peroxide dip followed by moving him to the 3 gallon and dosing metro and prazi sort of like general cure or maybe just metro. 2) if more likely secondary bacterial and flukes since we all think they are in my tank then maybe just leave him in during the prazi treatment and try feeding well or 3) try to order something else. Which would you do if you were me and in my possition? i wont get upset or anything obviously if it doesnt work out, i trust your judgement call more than mine with fish though.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

can it be caused by a secondary bacterial infection and flukes too or brook is alot more likely? well im kinda losing faith in trying to save him if i cant figure out some sort of treatment just like the clownfish. Basically i can think of 3 options 1) if more likely brook then maybe a hydrogen peroxide dip followed by moving him to the 3 gallon and dosing metro and prazi sort of like general cure or maybe just metro. 2) if more likely secondary bacterial and flukes since we all think they are in my tank then maybe just leave him in during the prazi treatment and try feeding well or 3) try to order something else. Which would you do if you were me and in my possition? i wont get upset or anything obviously if it doesnt work out, i trust your judgement call more than mine with fish though.

That's the trouble. If it were my fish, I would do a skin scrape and look under a microscope, that would show brook or flukes. If I saw neither, then I'd know it is bacterial. Just going off gross visible symptoms, I cannot say which it might be. I like you option #1 as the most likely to work H2O2 dips only work if you move the fish, so you're going to do that, so that's good.

Do you have a dose in mind for the peroxide dip? 75 ppm for 30 minutes would be a safe dose. 150 ppm would be harsher, but is often done.

 

[blazin'reefer]

That's the trouble. If it were my fish, I would do a skin scrape and look under a microscope, that would show brook or flukes. If I saw neither, then I'd know it is bacterial. Just going off gross visible symptoms, I cannot say which it might be. I like you option #1 as the most likely to work H2O2 dips only work if you move the fish, so you're going to do that, so that's good.

Do you have a dose in mind for the peroxide dip? 75 ppm for 30 minutes would be a safe dose. 150 ppm would be harsher, but is often done.

ok sounds good thank you. I have never took a skin scraping of a fish so i would be concerned i would make him worse but i am going to order a microscope so i have it in the future and i can learn. Would a mini 100x scope work or what x magnification is needed?

That is fair i understand it is not a sure thing trying to diagnose off only symptoms. My plans for the h2o2 were to follow humble fishes recipe for a 150ppm dip however i may add a bit less so it isnt as strong if that would be better. one issue with that tho is that the 3 gallon had the clownfish die in it just 2-3 weeks ago and i dont know how to sterilize it properly with corals still in it. I was thinking i would add forsure metro and possibly prazi as an insurance to the 3g tank after the dip? i could set up another small temporary tank instead too but wouldnt be cycled at all. All of this is contingent on if i can actually catch him aswell though because he is so small and fast and the second he sees the net or whatever i assume he will be inside the rockwork and impossible to get. Any tips on catching him or no? if i cant catch him in the next day or 2 max i may be forced to go with plan 2) and leave him in instead of plan 1).

Worst case scenario he is only like a $20 fish but im more concerned just about trying to give him a shot at life still.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ok sounds good thank you. I have never took a skin scraping of a fish so i would be concerned i would make him worse but i am going to order a microscope so i have it in the future and i can learn. Would a mini 100x scope work or what x magnification is needed?

That is fair i understand it is not a sure thing trying to diagnose off only symptoms. My plans for the h2o2 were to follow humble fishes recipe for a 150ppm dip however i may add a bit less so it isnt as strong if that would be better. one issue with that tho is that the 3 gallon had the clownfish die in it just 2-3 weeks ago and i dont know how to sterilize it properly with corals still in it. I was thinking i would add forsure metro and possibly prazi as an insurance to the 3g tank after the dip? i could set up another small temporary tank instead too but wouldnt be cycled at all. All of this is contingent on if i can actually catch him aswell though because he is so small and fast and the second he sees the net or whatever i assume he will be inside the rockwork and impossible to get. Any tips on catching him or no? if i cant catch him in the next day or 2 max i may be forced to go with plan 2) and leave him in instead of plan 1).

Worst case scenario he is only like a $20 fish but im more concerned just about trying to give him a shot at life still.

You might find a lens that fits on a cell phone for around $30. You want something that goes up to around 40 to 80 power.
Catching fish is tough and takes practice. If you don’t catch it right off, stop and try again later, don’t chase the fish around. Sometimes, you can use two nets and chase the fish into one of them with the other.

 

[blazin'reefer]

You might find a lens that fits on a cell phone for around $30. You want something that goes up to around 40 to 80 power.
Catching fish is tough and takes practice. If you don’t catch it right off, stop and try again later, don’t chase the fish around. Sometimes, you can use two nets and chase the fish into one of them with the other.

alright cool i will take a look online and see what i can find, is 40-80 power the same as 40-80x? I tried and was about to give up when i saw the talbot damsel biting the green clown goby on the side of the tank so i got lucky and was able to catch him. I did a 30 minute hydrogen peroxide dip and moved him to the 3 gallon. I then did a 20% water change in it and added 12.5mg metro per gallon a few hours later and will add another dose each 48h and increase for the last couple doses if that sounds right. Should i also add prazi too incase it was flukes or not yet since it will decrease his appetite more?

I also added the prazi to the main 55 tank 2.5 packs (20 gallon per pack) i have approx 49gallons total. That was about 7 hours ago but the tang was still in the flow tonight. i also stupidly forgot i poured the water from the h2o2 dip (only had less than 2.5ml) back into the tank about 6 hours before i added prazi. I wasnt planning on adding the prazi tonight and thought the h2o2 might help with the sludge and cyano in the hang on fuge thats killing the chaeto but then completely forgot i did that. Hopefully the small amount of h2o2 was dissipated enough before i added the prazi.

 

[blazin'reefer]

also had pretty much no problem dissolving it this time by shaking for a really long time in a water bottle with just 1ml vodka and then adding the ro and shaking a bunch more.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

also had pretty much no problem dissolving it this time by shaking for a really long time in a water bottle with just 1ml vodka and then adding the ro and shaking a bunch more.

Just be sure there is good aeration when using alcohol as a solvent.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Just be sure there is good aeration when using alcohol as a solvent.

i do have a ton of airation but the talbot damsel does now appear to be breathing very fast and hiding under the rocks almost all day when it was fine before prazi and during the last prazi with the same amount or more alcohol, really hoping it pulls through, i increased airation even more. I realized that the full strength dose is 2.5mg per liter, should i remove the prazi since the damsel is breathing really fast or leave it in?

 

[blazin'reefer]

Just an update, for the main 55 i upped the air as much as possible and added an extra gallon of saltwater. Didnt pull prazi yet though. The talbot damsel was swimming around and eatting when i fed the tank a bit an hour ago so thats a good sign for it i think.

For the green clown goby after the h2o2 dip and first 24 hours of metro in the 3g the mucous appears mostly gone which has revealed a few tiny white specs underneath which makes me wonder if it could be ich maybe or is that normal for brook? He has not flashed from what i can see but kinda hard to tell the way he swims. i did also see him kinda look like he had a "cough attack" for a few seconds too only once or twice but he is eatting a ton. Here is a picture of him with the dots now vissible after shrinking down and the mucous disappearing (sorry for the blue light but you can still see the "dots" aslong as brightness is up) could it be sand?

 

[blazin'reefer]

The tang is also swimming directly into the powerhead tonight like an inch or 2 away the closest he has before and almost all fish are twitching their heads in the 55 aswell, several who weren't prior to prazi i dont think. It has been 27 hours since i added the prazi as of now, is this normal and when would symptoms stop if it was flukes? I did have a minor bacteria bloom when i added the prazi but wasnt too bad looking and only lasted a few hours. I again appologize for all the questions and issues continually but more things are happening like every day that im not 100% sure how i should be responding to them.

I believe i will be quarantining in the future after all of this.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The tang is also swimming directly into the powerhead tonight like an inch or 2 away the closest he has before and almost all fish are twitching their heads in the 55 aswell, several who weren't prior to prazi i dont think. It has been 27 hours since i added the prazi as of now, is this normal and when would symptoms stop if it was flukes? I did have a minor bacteria bloom when i added the prazi but wasnt too bad looking and only lasted a few hours. I again appologize for all the questions and issues continually but more things are happening like every day that im not 100% sure how i should be responding to them.

I believe i will be quarantining in the future after all of this.

Bacteria breaks prazi down in about 36 hours, shorter time in tanks that have been dosed previously.

Generally, fish with flukes that are treated with prazi often show increased symptoms for a day or two after the treatment due to the open sores left over from when the flukes drop off. Symptoms after that time tend to indicate something other than flukes is going on here.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Bacteria breaks prazi down in about 36 hours, shorter time in tanks that have been dosed previously.

Generally, fish with flukes that are treated with prazi often show increased symptoms for a day or two after the treatment due to the open sores left over from when the flukes drop off. Symptoms after that time tend to indicate something other than flukes is going on here.

Jay

Thank you, i will keep a close eye on them the next day or 2 and update. if symptoms decrease like 90% but if they still have some is it still likely something else going on?

For the green clown goby now in the 3g the mucous sheets are completely gone and his fins look like they have grown back a small bit with 3 days of metro and the prior h2o2 dip but now they have turned into small white dots all over him. Does this still look like brook or could it be ich or what and if so should i continue with the metro since it says it kills ich or start trying to order copper since they all could have it?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you, i will keep a close eye on them the next day or 2 and update. if symptoms decrease like 90% but if they still have some is it still likely something else going on?

For the green clown goby now in the 3g the mucous sheets are completely gone and his fins look like they have grown back a small bit with 3 days of metro and the prior h2o2 dip but now they have turned into small white dots all over him. Does this still look like brook or could it be ich or what and if so should i continue with the metro since it says it kills ich or start trying to order copper since they all could have it?

On Sunday, I had mentioned that this species of goby shows really large spots when they have ich - now these new pics looks like that. Hyposalinity or coppersafe would be the treatment of choice (not with invertebrates of course).

Jay