new Maroon Clownfish starving itself and spitting out all of its food for 8 or 9 days

[blazin'reefer]

On Sunday, I had mentioned that this species of goby shows really large spots when they have ich - now these new pics looks like that. Hyposalinity or coppersafe would be the treatment of choice (not with invertebrates of course).

Jay

Thats what made me think it could be ich once the mucous mostly cleared plus other pictures online too. Does hypo really work long term as good as copper and do you just slowly ramp down to 1.010 or whatever?

For the main 55 is it likely infected too then and would the best thing be to go fallow? if so should i do the second dose (or 4th actually) of prazi in like 4 or 5 days still or would hypo treat if it was flukes too? looking close at the tang today i do see some large whitish specks on his side fins now but none on his body and they look slightly bigger than the ones on the goby and now the black/brown dots are gone it looks like.

I have a 30 cube in my room that im not sure if its cracked or not so i will need to do some water tests to see if it will work, if it holds water and doesnt destroy my house or kill me could i house a 5" mimic chocolate tang, 4 small damsels, watchman goby and a green clown goby in there if i needed to go fallow and run hypo or copper on them all?

Thanks again in advance and ill try to make that all my questions for today.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thats what made me think it could be ich once the mucous mostly cleared plus other pictures online too. Does hypo really work long term as good as copper and do you just slowly ramp down to 1.010 or whatever?

For the main 55 is it likely infected too then and would the best thing be to go fallow? if so should i do the second dose (or 4th actually) of prazi in like 4 or 5 days still or would hypo treat if it was flukes too? looking close at the tang today i do see some large whitish specks on his side fins now but none on his body and they look slightly bigger than the ones on the goby and now the black/brown dots are gone it looks like.

I have a 30 cube in my room that im not sure if its cracked or not so i will need to do some water tests to see if it will work, if it holds water and doesnt destroy my house or kill me could i house a 5" mimic chocolate tang, 4 small damsels, watchman goby and a green clown goby in there if i needed to go fallow and run hypo or copper on them all?

Thanks again in advance and ill try to make that all my questions for today.

Here is my thread on hypo:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Hypo works for flukes as well, but of course, it kills all invertebrates.

Jay

 

[Tired]

Putting a sick, contagious fish into your tank for a week does mean the tank is now infected, yes.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Here is my thread on hypo:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Hypo works for flukes as well, but of course, it kills all invertebrates.

Jay

after reading through yours and humblefishs posts on how to do hypo im not sure if my measurement tools are accurate/calibrated enough to perform properly honestly. i might just try to order copper if its the easier treatment to do properly and hope it gets here in time. Not sure if api, seachem or salifert would be the better test though since i dont want to spend a ton on a hanna yet. Also just noticed the talbot damsel is swimming into the flow now aswell and has white spots on its fins like the tang so maybe copper would be better incase it is velvet still although i feel like they would be dead already if it was.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Putting a sick, contagious fish into your tank for a week does mean the tank is now infected, yes.

yeah i thought so. The clownfish who died that sparked this epidemic didnt even show any signs either other than spitting all its food out and being lethargic.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

after reading through yours and humblefishs posts on how to do hypo im not sure if my measurement tools are accurate/calibrated enough to perform properly honestly. i might just try to order copper if its the easier treatment to do properly and hope it gets here in time. Not sure if api, seachem or salifert would be the better test though since i dont want to spend a ton on a hanna yet. Also just noticed the talbot damsel is swimming into the flow now aswell and has white spots on its fins like the tang so maybe copper would be better incase it is velvet still although i feel like they would be dead already if it was.

The range on must copper test kits is too low to use with chelated copper medications. The Hanna HR tester is the way to go. The API test is accurate, but almost impossible to read with the human eye (I use a spectrophotometer to read the test). If you know the EXACT water volume to be treated, you can just dose for that volume according to label instructions, and then double check with the api test.
Jay

 

[Tired]

You really should have a salinity measuring tool that's accurate enough to get a proper reading, for your display tank if nothing else. Refractometers are fairly cheap ($20?) and easy enough to calibrate.

 

[blazin'reefer]

The range on must copper test kits is too low to use with chelated copper medications. The Hanna HR tester is the way to go. The API test is accurate, but almost impossible to read with the human eye (I use a spectrophotometer to read the test). If you know the EXACT water volume to be treated, you can just dose for that volume according to label instructions, and then double check with the api test.
Jay

alright thanks again i really appreciate all the info Jay. I have been doing more researching on quarantine and hospital tanks aswell as hypo, copper and tests today watching brs and reading old threads. Also water tested the tank in the meantime. I thought it was a 30 but looks to hold about 23 or 24 gallons. hasnt leaked yet 2/3 full for 24h so thats good.

Im still torn at which to try and also particularly on if i forsure need to pull them all yet and put them in a small space for 2.5 months that will possibly have mortality issues aswell and may exacerbate things at first. Would you pull them and try hypo/copper or possibyl both if you were me without the ability to do a scrape and scope yet?

I have some symptoms of all big 3 diseases but yet the fish are all still eatting. during prazi there was major head twitching and flashing that has mostly subsided which made me think it was flukes even more but they are still doing it rarely several days after and 2 (talbot damsel, tang) are swimming in flow alot while the tang is still rubbing his side on the sand and trying to get cbs to clean him constantly. There are white specs on a few fins aswell but not much vissible on the bodies still and also one black speck on the tang again. The talbot damsel does look a bit pale and is constantly swimming in the flow now but did just eat when i fed after not seeming interested last night after lights were almost down. Then theres the green clown goby with the spots i posted that looks like ich now.

 

[blazin'reefer]

You really should have a salinity measuring tool that's accurate enough to get a proper reading, for your display tank if nothing else. Refractometers are fairly cheap ($20?) and easy enough to calibrate.

I do have a refractometer (aswell as a cheap glass float hydrometer) but i have only been calibrating with RO water from the tap kinda cold, i tried a standard once but like a month later it was reading off from evap or condensation or something so i just went back to ro and threw it away. I also dont have a top off so i would have to do it by hand unless i got or made one. Have you used a cheap refractometer for hypo before and did it work? If yes how do you keep it lab calibrated as thats what most things say for hypo treatment. Thanks

 

[blazin'reefer]

@Jay Hemdal hope i didn't step on any toes or anything by starting another thread, i highly appreciate all your help you have given me this last month.

So unfortunately when i looked at the tank today the tang was sitting in one spot falling from side to side, twitching a bunch, and breathing fast shallow breaths i just did a 15% waterchange and added new carbon because i didnt know what else to do. Should i try hypo right now since i have to slowly lower salt levels anyways even with no calibration fluid for my refractometer and would have to use ro or is that a terrible idea? just dont know what to do and feel desperate at this point, was going to try a fw dip but thought theres no way he would pull through in this state.

 

[blazin'reefer]

well it died over night im 99% sure, it is all white and bristle worms around it and doesnt look like its breathing, going to give it another hour or 2 and if it doesnt move then move it to the water change bucket till i can stomache flushing it since its winter and i cant burry it. Cant believe my favorite fish is the first (or i guess second) to hit the bucket literally.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

well it died over night im 99% sure, it is all white and bristle worms around it and doesnt look like its breathing, going to give it another hour or 2 and if it doesnt move then move it to the water change bucket till i can stomache flushing it since its winter and i cant burry it. Cant believe my favorite fish is the first (or i guess second) to hit the bucket literally.

In looking over your pictures again, I can’t tell you why the tang died, but does the damsel still have those white spots on its tail fin? By enlarging the pucture, I wonder if those are microsoridian cysts - they look kind of elongated, like tiny grains of rice. If so, that is a rare disease that has no cure.

Can you get a clear video of the remaining fish?

 

[blazin'reefer]

In looking over your pictures again, I can’t tell you why the tang died, but does the damsel still have those white spots on its tail fin? By enlarging the pucture, I wonder if those are microsoridian cysts - they look kind of elongated, like tiny grains of rice. If so, that is a rare disease that has no cure.

Can you get a clear video of the remaining fish?

sorry for the late reply, i kinda stopped caring about my tank for a day or 2 after the tang died but i still took some pictures and videos. i am now seeing the talbot damsel and lemon damsel flashing a decent amount too when they werent before. The talbot damsel still has the dots on its fins too. The yellow tail blue damsel has 2 big black marks but they might be stings or from one of the others biting it not sure, and also a couple white dots on fins.

I will also post a pic of the clown goby when i clean the 3g, he still has the dots but they looks way more faded like 95% gone from 9 days of metro so far.

 

[blazin'reefer]

not sure why the monti looks bleached in those too, it isn't at all in person.

 

[musel101]

Maybe some garlic guard too, to entice the fish mixed in with the food.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

sorry for the late reply, i kinda stopped caring about my tank for a day or 2 after the tang died but i still took some pictures and videos. i am now seeing the talbot damsel and lemon damsel flashing a decent amount too when they werent before. The talbot damsel still has the dots on its fins too. The yellow tail blue damsel has 2 big black marks but they might be stings or from one of the others biting it not sure, and also a couple white dots on fins.

I will also post a pic of the clown goby when i clean the 3g, he still has the dots but they looks way more faded like 95% gone from 9 days of metro so far.

Well, the damselfish are fighting, the YT blue seems to be the aggressor over the Talbots. You may need to separate them if it gets worse.

You'll need to sumarize all of the treatments that you've done, and what ones you are contemplating, I see you've done 9 days of metronidazole? Last I read you were *thinking* about it, but I'll need to know the dose you treated, how many times, etc.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Maybe some garlic guard too, to entice the fish mixed in with the food.

thanks for the suggestion, i have been using garlic and entice every once in a while but will try some more garlic maybe.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Well, the damselfish are fighting, the YT blue seems to be the aggressor over the Talbots. You may need to separate them if it gets worse.

You'll need to sumarize all of the treatments that you've done, and what ones you are contemplating, I see you've done 9 days of metronidazole? Last I read you were *thinking* about it, but I'll need to know the dose you treated, how many times, etc.

Jay

i will keep an eye on them to see if the aggression gets worse i think its just them re-establishing a hierarchy though since the tang is gone now. If you look close at the lemon damsel and talbot their skin also looks sort of pale-ish and almost looks like a slightly thicker mucous coat on the body or something Maybe? or maybe its from flashing, plus theres the dots on fins. Then the yellowtail has like 3 or 4 white dots on the lower fins aswell that sort of look ich suspicious to me.

The only treatment i have done on the main 55 tank was the 3 doses of prazi (never did the 4th cause things didnt look better after the 3rd and the tang died). The metro i only did in the 3g on the clown goby and did 12.5mg per gallon for the first 4 every 48 hours and then the last dose i did was 25mg/g approx and was going to do one more atleast and that was all i tried on that tank so far. I didnt do metro in the main tank cause i was worried it would kill the blue yellow cbs. I was thinking about pulling the fish into the 25 or 30 and either metro, hypo, or copper or maybe a different antibiotic like vette had mentioned depending on the disease or diseases. Still needing to order the new salinity standard and copper if i need it though just havent been sure if i do forsure.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

i will keep an eye on them to see if the aggression gets worse i think its just them re-establishing a hierarchy though since the tang is gone now. If you look close at the lemon damsel and talbot their skin also looks sort of pale-ish and almost looks like a slightly thicker mucous coat on the body or something Maybe? or maybe its from flashing, plus theres the dots on fins. Then the yellowtail has like 3 or 4 white dots on the lower fins aswell that sort of look ich suspicious to me.

The only treatment i have done on the main 55 tank was the 3 doses of prazi (never did the 4th cause things didnt look better after the 3rd and the tang died). The metro i only did in the 3g on the clown goby and did 12.5mg per gallon for the first 4 every 48 hours and then the last dose i did was 25mg/g approx and was going to do one more atleast and that was all i tried on that tank so far. I didnt do metro in the main tank cause i was worried it would kill the blue yellow cbs. I was thinking about pulling the fish into the 25 or 30 and either metro, hypo, or copper or maybe a different antibiotic like vette had mentioned depending on the disease or diseases. Still needing to order the new salinity standard and copper if i need it though just havent been sure if i do forsure

Correct - you shouldn't dose metro in a tank with invertebrates in it. The dose you used was kind of odd, but it worked, so I guess that's good.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Correct - you shouldn't dose metro in a tank with invertebrates in it. The dose you used was kind of odd, but it worked, so I guess that's good.

Jay

i was trying to follow what humblefish recommended on his site for brook which is half the recommended 500mg per 20g then ramped up to full dose after a few doses for 10 days atleast. If i read it right. There are still a few of the dots with tiny mucous bits on them tho so i dont know if i should keep dosing. it has reduced probably 90% since the video with the mucous sheets and like 75% since the picture with just the dots that you said looked more like ich after but vette thought bacterial. This is for the clown goby in the 3g. If i pull all he would likely join for the other treatments if still needed.

For the main tank do you think i should consider pulling them some point soon and doing hypo or copper with maybe metro food or should i just keep waiting and if so should i order the stuff for hypo and copper so i have it if i need to? the lemon damsel kinda looks like its missing scales or something which i guess would make sense from flashing.